OT: New PC!

[AgentZero]

If only things worked like that over here. The ATI 1900 series came out a month or so over here, and the prices of other cards hasn't gone down yet. In fact, they've gone up. I think the only place where I'll be spending an less money is on the RAM, if I can find somewhere over here selling Crucial PC3200, since I've no real need whatsoever for PC4000, having no intention of doing any overclocking on this system.

[NullAshton]

Even better, buy quadruple 7800's.

[LonghornXtreme]

JAFisher44 said:
Well, fire hazards aside, The reason I would never OC a chip is because it is bad for it. Period. No matter how well cooled the chip is OCing will reduce its life expectancy. Chips are built to run at certain speeds. The process of heating and cooling causes the silicon in the chip to expand and contract. The materials used are rated to do this at a certain speed. If you overclock (even with proper cooling) this will occur more often and to a greater degree and will degrade the chip. This means that the chip will fail sooner than it would at its rated speed, often far sooner. This is why you should not do it.

Not to mention the fact that overclocking your chip is a guarenteed recipie for failure if your cooling system ever hiccups. Sure, overclocking is fun if you can afford to buy a new system every year, or buy multiple chips, if necessary, when things go wrong, but for your average working joe, you would be best served to just use it at rated specs.

If you do insist on overclocking you should go with a Pentium chip, as they seem to tollerate it better, relatively, than AMD chips. However this means that you have to use a Pentium chip (not good if you want a gaming machine). I would also recommend dropping a some cash on a good liquid cooling system as well.

I know that quote was from one of the first few pages of this thread and I'll admit I haven't read past that post...

I just have to disspell some myths about overclocking:

1) 80% of the time (or more) chips from the same architecture come off of the same piece of silicon. The manufacturer then tests the stablilty of the chip and the voltage requirements for each chip... the chips are then coded by these tests and binned (separated into model #'s i.e. the difference between lets say an A64X23800 and a 4200)

2) In the first production runs of a certain architecture i.e. right when the chip comes out, the above process IS important when determining the durability and stability of the higher clock speed chips. BUT once the fabrication kinks are ironed out, most chips are exactly (i hate using the word exact, of course they're not identical, but for turning the chip up to a higher 'stock' speed and other overclocking purposes, it's the same) the same pieces of silicon, just multiplier locked from the factory.

3) AMD and Intel sell vast more amounts of mid ranged and lower chips than their bleeding edge models

4) All processors 'wear out.' Lets say stock speed it'll last 50,000 hours at 100% usage (purely hypothetical number for the hours, it's a large number) And let's say that same chip with a good heatsink and fan or other properly designed cooling system is clocked up 300mhz will run 45,000 hours at 100% usage. The key is 100% usage... most computer users will have periods of 100% and then their CPU's will idle... Not to mention most of the upper end chips wear out faster than the lower end chips of the same architecture... see where I'm getting to?

4b) All processors are designed to go through cycles of hot and cold just like an engine is designed to go through cycles of hot and cold.

5) If your computer catches fire: well you didn't take care of your dust bunnies EVER, or something was way more wrong with the computer than overclocking. (I know this wasn't in the quote, BUT it was in a post preceding it)

With proper chip selection and timing, it is possible to buy the same qualtiy chip. With proper cooling you can insure a long lifetime of the chip. And with proper knowledge of overclocking the chip can be absolutely 1000's of hours prime 95 stable (that means it ran prime95 constantly and never had a false calculation, good test for CPU and RAM stability)

I have no problem with people that spend more money for the upper end processors... but I usually choose to buy the low to mid range model solely due to economics and let my knowledge of overclocking turn that hundreds of dollars cheaper piece of (the same) silicon into the high end chip or beyond. It's the same thing as a person who buys a 911 to go fast versus someone who modifies a cheaper car (not a pinto mind you) let's say an Rx8 or a G35. Both can achieve the same level of performance but it takes expertise, trial and error, and sometimes a little scientific method to do it effectively.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

I remember finding a hidden overclock mode on one of my graphics cards. I think it was an NVidia, but I'm not sure.

[AgentZero]

Despite my misgivings about overclocking (that was me who posted about the fire, and I know it's an extreme case, if one person can find one other person that's happened to, I'll give you a lot of money), I haven't any issues against it, aside from one thing: I know absolutely nothing about it. Well, I know what it is, but that's as far as my knowledge goes. I might one day spend a couple hundred euro on a cheap system that I can tinker around with and learn about overclocking on, but I'm not going to risk anything on my €3,000 system.
Especially because when it comes to computers, I am the embodiment of Murphy's Law. If you ever see a review or a note on a website saying 'Some users experience [insert something negative here]', you can be pretty much guaranteed that I'll be one of those users. And that, in a nutshell, is why I ain't gonna be overclocking this system.
I have enough knowledge to assemble a system, and I'm willing to spend a bit extra so I know all I have to do is assemble it correctly and it'll work.

[NullAshton]

If you want to be careful about it, do it very, very, slowly. Only increase clock speeds by 5 every time. When there's errors or it gets too hot, then reduce the clock by 25 or so, giving you good buffer room.

[Thermodyne]

Renegade 13 said:
And soon the next generation of cards will be out from Nvidia, and their cards will wipe the floor with the current ATI...etc etc ad nausem. The cycle will continue, with the prices for top cards from both companies absurdly high, continually one-upping each other...

If you actually want the best performance vs. price ratio, go for the generation behind the latest generation. Perfectly good performance for a hell of a lot less cost. To be honest...who actually needs that much graphical power? I run a 6600GT and it'll handle anything I throw at it. It'll be a long time before I have to upgrade, and when I do it won't be horribly expensive like it would be if I went top of the line.

My advice would be to not bother with the latest graphics card and go with something a little more reasonably priced, yet with perfectly good performance.

But that's just me, and I'm a little stingy.

With that ASUS board, you don’t need to know how to over-clock. It has a little app that let’s you oc from the desk top.

[AgentZero]

Thought I'd just resurect this thread on account of me heading back to Canada, the new machine will likely be bought over there. So, can any fellow Canucks recommend a good Canadian website for me to buy all my bits & pieces from?

[Captain Kwok]

This website is generally considered the best:
http://www.tigerdirect.ca

[Renegade 13]

I concur with Kwok. I've bought a couple items from them, they have good prices, good shipping and a very wide selection.