MBT's

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well apparently, not everyone is sold on the K2 in Europe.

Norway now joins Hungry (And one other I can't remember right now.) in down selecting the LEOPARD 2A7 (EXPORT).

The initial order will be for 54 tanks to be designated as the LEOPARD 2A7NO (Of course what else.) with the option for an additional 18 more units.

Like with Hungry (They've only received the LEOPARD 2A4 training tanks.) there is NO TIMELINE set for delivery.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...h_sensors.html

The good news I submitted the EXPORT LEOPARD 2A7/2A7V so we're tank ready to just "plug in and play" when we know something.

If it wasn't for the war, I'd say we'd see these before games end.

I think now it'll be "touch and go" but from my perspective building them wouldn't have been a wasted effort.

TGIF!

Regards,
Pat

[blazejos]

Info about new-old T-55/T-54 which reach a frontline and propably are already in combat units on Russian side. From article general conclusion is that this tanks aren't upgraded in any way just refurbished.

https://en.defence-ua.com/industries...mean-6394.html

https://mil.in.ua/en/news/russia-dir...ks-to-ukraine/

T-55 are also used actively during coup d'etate in Sudan which started yesterday togeteher with technicals vehicles
https://en.defence-ua.com/news/battl...ases-6407.html

Leopard 1A5 former Danish are also nearly finishing completnes
https://en.defence-ua.com/news/ukrai...eeks-6404.html
https://mil.in.ua/en/news/preparatio...ing-completed/

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

As promised without all the "BOLD" for the players. Thank You for not commenting on the Patch Thread as that's the "workshop" where things get done in a focused manner. As noted already both submissions have been vented.

Patch Post #1 for the 2022-2023 Campaign Page 2.
A quick update, early this morning (Week ago almost.) and revisited the ORNX site since I looked into this last in November. Tanks that saw increases in captured tanks will be marked with a "+”. The Russian tanks that saw the largest “captured” increases by several were the T-72B3M (As to be corrected below.) and the T-80BV. Also, to update the T-90M stats now show 9 T-90M: (1, destroyed) (2, destroyed) (3, destroyed) (1, damaged) (2, damaged) (3, damaged) (1, damaged and abandoned) (1, captured) (2, captured) as of today.

Also, for current/future players should we consider something such (C), 22 or CAP to denote their captured status after their “name”?

The (31) after the name by example, shows how many were captured (2+1) of each unit. The [BPVR” [/b] means Photo Video Range by dates. As discussed in Page 1 this will set my START dates unless I have better data.

UKRAINE/CHANGE/T-62MV/UNIT 023/STEEL TF 36/HEAT HF 35/TF 43/PARITY ISSUE/T-62MV SAME MBT BOTH COUNTRIES ARMOR WISE. //
RUSSIA/CHANGE/T-62MV/UNIT 023/STEEL HS 10/HEAT HS 13/TS 21/TOP 6/PARITY ISSUE/T-62MV SAME MBT BOTH COUNTRIES ARMOR WISE. //These tanks were I believe both designed and built in what was then Soviet occupied Ukraine. The Ukrainian tanks were "inherited" after the Soviet Empire collapsed. There are no differences between them.

UKRAINE/ADD/T-62M (33) +/COPY/RUSSIAN UNIT 021/PVR MAR10-NOV13 2022/START/N0V 2022/NEAR PEER/UKRAINIAN UNIT 022. //
UKRAINE/ADD T-62MV (8) +/COPY/RUSSIAN RIVISED UNIT 023/PVR APR10-NOV11 2022/START/NOV 2022. //
The Ukraine just literally got rid of all their T-62 tanks except for the ones on display in museums and parks ~25 years ago. Though Ukrainian UNIT 022 was actually better in the T-62M1 BDD version which apparently Russia had as well. Also, it appears Russia will be bringing back a slightly modified version of the Russian T-62M1 BDD as part of 800 T-62 modernization Program to start later this year.
****** The question “hanging in the air” is do we add the T-62M1 BDD to the Russian OOB as copied from the Ukraine OOB as they had it? ******
https://www.armyrecognition.com/ukra...sian_army.html
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...91e1803f05bb9e
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...-losses-report
https://weaponsystems.net/system/634-T-62M
http://www.military-today.com/tanks/t62.htm

Page 3.
RUSSIA/CHANGE/T-72AV/UNIT 033/START/JAN 1988 VICE JAN 1985/PER REFS AT END. //
RUSSIA/CHANGE/T-72B/UNIT 036/START JUN 1989 VICE JAN 1988/END/DEC 2025 VICE DEC 1992/PER REFS AT END. //
Going with USA date.
https://odin.tradoc.army.mil/mediawi...ttle_Tank_(MBT)
http://fofanov.armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/MBT/t-72bm.htm
(This ref. not updated since 2000. See very bottom of page.)

UKRAINE/ADD/T-72B (65) +/COPY/RUSSIAN REVISED UNIT 036/PVR MAR20-NOV29 2022/START JUL 2022/NEAR PEER/UKRAINIAN UNIT 033. //

RUSSIA/CHANGE/T-72B1M/UNIT 045/RENAME/T-72B3/START/JAN 2013 VICE JAN 2012/ADD/ATGW 9M119 AT-11 SVIR OR 9M119M REFLEKKS/HAS APS ARENA/TI/GSR 40 VICE 45/MG 125mm 2A46M-5 VICE 125mm GUN 05. // One of few Russian tanks that can use more than one ATGW. TI/GSR changed to maintain separation with the T-72B3M as submitted below, that tank currently represents the "APEX” in T-72 design. However, I feel the rest of the FCS should remain unchanged. The Contract wasn’t signed until 2012 to begin the modernization program. By the end of 2013 a total of 270 units were produced. This tank as it stands compares "nicely” against the current [Russian T-73B3 UNIT 697.

RUSSIA/DELETE/T-72B1M/UNIT 047/TANK DOES NOT EXIST/NOT NEEDED FOR T-73B3/ALL T-72B3 HAVE APS ARENA INSTALLED. // See MBT Post # 1459 for further. As a postscript to that post, what I just did above I had written down almost a week ago-listen to that inner voice. Also due to that post, RUSSIAN/T-72BM/UNIT 037/I’VE LEFT IT UNCHANGED.
https://weaponsystems.net/system/1410-T-72B3
https://www.armyrecognition.com/russ...act_sheet.html

UKRAINE/ADD/T-72B3 (83) +/COPY/RUSSIAN REVISED UNIT 045/PVR MAR07-DEC01 2022/START AUG 2022/NEAR PEER/UKRAINIAN UNITS 042 & 043. //

RUSSIA/CHANGE/T-72B3/UNIT 697/RENAME/T-72B3M. // As discussed in the MBT Thread, I unintentionally named this tank incorrectly when submitted during the 2013/2014 Patch Campaign.

UKRAINE/ADD/T-72B3M (100) +/COPY/RUSSIAN REVISED UNIT 697/PVR MAR02-DEC28 2022/START AUG 2022/NEAR PEER/UKRAINIAN UNITS 061 & 063. //
https://weaponsystems.net/system/1410-T-72B3
https://www.armyrecognition.com/russ..._pictures.html
http://www.military-today.com/tanks/t72b4.htm

******ORNX would report that there are currently 102 T-72 variants which they haven’t been able to classify with 80 Destroyed/16 Damaged/1 Damaged & Abandoned and 5 Captured.
I call this journalistic “integrity”. ******

Page 4
RUSSIA/CHANGE/T-80BV/UNIT 040/END/DEC 2025 VICE DEC 1992. // This tank is very much still in service. Also, it’s confirmed that to date 199 been destroyed, damaged, and abandoned with 77 captured by Ukraine. However newer pictures seem to show it with Kontakt-5 ERA package.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/russ...res_video.html
https://weaponsystems.net/system/832-T-80BV
http://www.military-today.com/tanks/t80b.htm

RUSSIA/CHANGE/T-80BVM/UNIT 046/FC 45 VICE 50/STABILIZER 5 VICE 6 .//Earlier models had a passive defensive system VRISS per refs. ALSO “In 2018 a first batch of 31 T-80BV tanks was upgraded to the T-80BVM standard. These operational tanks were first publicly revealed during a military parade in 2018. However, these initial tanks lacked some features of the T-80BVM demonstrator that was revealed in 2017.” In 2019 31 T-80BV tanks were too be updated to the modernized version of the T-80BVM based on the above mentioned 2017 demonstrator. That would be UNIT 048 below.
http://www.military-today.com/tanks/t80bvm.htm
https://weaponsystems.net/system/835-T-80BVM

RUSSIA/CHANGE/T-80BVM/UNIT 048/ START/JAN 2020 VICE OCT 2018/TI/GSR 45 VICE 40/SURVIABILITY 5 VICE 4/ADD/ARENA APS SYSTEM//. Upon review of the ORNX pictures where the turrets aren’t too badly damaged, they are ALL clearly showing me the mast used for the ARENA APS. There’s only 2 trains of thought here 1. All got the ARENA APS installed SINCE 2020. 2. Russia ONLY committed those tanks with the ARENA APS to the war while the T-80BVM not equipped are “elsewhere”. At this time I feel we should leave BOTH these tanks in and go with thought #2 as there is no evidence to the contrary.
https://tass.com/defense/1098733

UKRAINE/ADD/T-80BVM (32) +)/COPY/REVISED RUSSIAN UNIT 048/PVR MAR04-DEC22 2022/START/AUG 2022/NEAR PEER/UKRAINIAN UNIT 046. //

RUSSIA/DELETE/T-90A/UNIT 052/PER REFS T-90A ONLY EQUIPPED WITH SHORTORA-1 VIRSS SYSTEM.// “T-90A also has a laser warning system and an aerosol-generating system that uses 3D17 grenades of 902A Tucha (Cloud) designation.”

UKRAINE/ADD/T-90A (12) +/COPY/RUSSIAN UNIT 051/ERA/VERFY KONTAKT-5/ERA NUMBERS LOOK HIGH FOR IT/PVR FEB27-SEP30/START/JUL 2022/NEAR PEER/UKRAINIAN UNIT 064. //
https://www.armyrecognition.com/russ...ical_data.html
http://www.military-today.com/tanks/t90.htm
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/bu...er-syria-53907

******ORNX would report that there are currently 180 Unknown tank: Variants (Mine-Based on placement on the list, I’ll assume these cover all T-80 and T-90 types.) which they haven’t been able to classify with 165 Destroyed/10 Damaged/3 Damaged & Abandoned and 2 Abandoned.
I call this again journalistic “integrity”. ******


Page 5
Russian Captured APCs
UKRAINE/ADD/BTR-82A (122)/COPY/RUSSIAN UNIT 700/PVR FEB28 2022-JAN02 2023/START/JUN 2022. // The advantages should be obvious for the Ukrainians here the armor is heavier than most of their wheeled APC’s and I don’t believe they have any APC type with a TI/GSR 50.
https://postlmg.cc/xqKNpbWM
(This was a little unusual from ALL the pictures I looked at as it came with a story.)
https://weaponsystems.net/system/123-BTR-82
https://odin.tradoc.army.mil/mediawi...l_Carrier_(APC)
https://www.military-today.com/apc/btr_82.htm

UKRAINE/ADD/BMD-4M (11)/COPY/RUSSIAN UNIT 668 (or 341)/PVR MAR-APR 2022/START/MAY 2022/NEAR PEER/UKRAINIAN UNITS 333 & 345. //Heavier weapons package against both. As compared to Peer Unit 333 its better protected. Against Peer Unit 345 its FCS is almost superior.
http://www.military-today.com/apc/bmd_4m.htm
https://www.armyrecognition.com/russ..._pictures.html

****** ORNX Reports Infantry Fighting Vehicles (1912, of which destroyed: 1210, damaged: 46, abandoned: 77, captured: 577) ******

UKRAINE/ADD/BTR-80A (61)/COPY/RUSSIAN UNIT 211/PVR MAR04-DEC06 2022/START/AUG 2022 /NEAR PEER/UKRAINIAN UNIT 307. // Again this unit is better than its Ukrainian counterpart with its weapons configuration and heavier armor by offering a HEAT package.
https://weaponsystems.net/system/122-BTR-80A
https://www.armyrecognition.com/russ...icle_data.html
http://www.military-today.com/apc/btr_80a.htm

****** ORNX Reports Armoured Personnel Carriers (289, of which destroyed: 177, damaged: 5, abandoned: 12, captured: 95) ******

This concludes my Ukrainian capture list of Russian armor.

ODDS AND ENDS

UKRAINE/ADD/T-55S/ORIGIN/SLOVINIA/NO OOB/NEW BUILD/START JAN 2022/END DEC 2025/CREW 4/CARRY 0/SPEED 50 km/h/SWIM 0/EW 4 VRISS/RADIO 90/VISION TI/GSR 40/MG/105mm RO L7/RDS 36 (+UK SUPPLIED)/COAX 7.62mm/RDS 2800/ROOF 12.7mm (KORD?)/RDS 250 READY/NO ATGW/FC 45/LRF 22/STABILISER 4 OR 5/SURVIVABILITY 5/ NOTE: FCS HAS HUNTER KILLER FULL CAPIBILTY/NOTE: TO ASSIST IN NEXT VALUES USED UKRAINIAN UNITS 014 & 073 BASELINE/STEEL HF 50 HS 12 HR 6 TF 50 TS 18 TOP 10/HEAT 55 HS 15 HR 8/10 TF 55 TS 18 TOP 10/NOTE: THE CLOSEST MATCH IN TIME AND HAVING THE SUPER BLAZER ERA IS GB UNIT 062 CHALLENGER TES/ERA HF 15 HS 15 HR 4 TF 15 TS 15 TOP 10/UKRAINIAN SLAT ARMOR ON TANK REAR AREA see Ref 4/ROF 6.//I accept some of the above might change but I’ve done the best I can with the very limited information out there. The SUPER BLAZER ERA is (Page 6) stout even by today’s standards unsure what ERA Ukraine added or where. But you normally don’t go backwards.
SP and SPAA Developments Tread Post #240
https://militaryleak.com/2022/09/21/...ks-to-ukraine/
https://mezha.media/en/2022/09/20/th...-armed-forces/
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/produc...of%20the%20jet.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...ks/ar-AA15WpCv
(This ref justifies START/UNIT IN TRAINING/Lead picture shows rear SLAT ARMOR “The new photos reveal recent additions to the M-55Ss: explosive reactive armor and slat armor on the hulls.”)

USMC/CHANGE/ALL FEP-T/UNITS 846, 847, 848, 849, 851 & 852/REMOVE CIWS TROPHY APS. // There were only 2-5 USMC M1A1 tanks involved in a joint test with the USA involving the “Proof of Concept” to determine the feasibility and testing of the TROPHY APS and to address any compatibility issues in mating our systems to it. The tests were successful HOWEVER the USMC was already in the beginning stages of PLAN 2030 which as we know now had the tanks near or at the top of the list to remove.
The USA proceeded onward and in a manner of speaking so did the USMC in preparing to send their tanks back to the USA and “Sun setting” all their armor and maintenace support units. As you will see below the “timeline” doesn't support APS.
https://www.defense-aerospace.com/us...-for-m1-tanks/
https://armyrecognition.com/april_20..._21504162.html
15 October 2019…
https://www.joint-forces.com/defence...y-aps-delivery
24 March 2020…
https://www.popularmechanics.com/mil...e-corps-tanks/
(Note front of the turret. No APS Sensor.)
21 JULY 2020…
https://www.businessinsider.com/mari...talions-2020-7
(Note the caption of top picture and turret as well.)
06 DEC 2020…
https://news.yahoo.com/tank-marines-...131331371.html
(Original Military.com article. Note picture same as above.)
08 January 2021…
https://www.defenceprocurementintern...d-leonardo-drs

I was going to do a little more here, but as my “Marine Buddy” knows I’ve been sitting on this for about 3 years now. Why now well assuming Andy and Don are still willing, it won’t be long before we’ll be “sun setting” ourselves. IF all goes well, you have to remember after this Patch, there’ll ONLY AT BEST THREE LEFT the FINAL one WITH Andy, Don and GOD willing WILL BE THE 2025-2026 Campaign (And besides Don, I know a special handful of others understand why I’ve called it a CAMPAIGN all these years.)

Lastly, I want to THANK Suhiir for trusting me after discussing it, to allow to build those tanks initially and some other things she ALLOWED me to do in her OOB (Don’t kid yourselves, it’s hers alright!) of course, there was a downside because we ended up having to redo to some extent almost every ABRAMS in the game in the 2019/2020 Campaign.

Regards,
Pat


Another Day for Part 2, on my day off and I'm dealing with a work-related time sensitive issue that needs my attention.
Retirement anyone!?! Can't wait.

[DRG]

Pat, is there anything info in the post above I have not already been given?

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

USMC/CHANGE/ALL FEP-T/UNITS 846, 847, 848, 849, 851 & 852/REMOVE CIWS TROPHY APS. //[/b] There were only 2-5 USMC M1A1 tanks involved in a joint test with the USA involving the “Proof of Concept” to determine the feasibility and testing of the TROPHY APS and to address any compatibility issues in mating our systems to it. The tests were successful HOWEVER the USMC was already in the beginning stages of PLAN 2030 which as we know now had the tanks near or at the top of the list to remove.
The USA proceeded onward and in a manner of speaking so did the USMC in preparing to send their tanks back to the USA and “Sun setting” all their armor and maintenace support units. As you will see below the “timeline” doesn't support APS.
https://www.defense-aerospace.com/us...-for-m1-tanks/
https://armyrecognition.com/april_20..._21504162.html
15 October 2019…
https://www.joint-forces.com/defence...y-aps-delivery
24 March 2020…
https://www.popularmechanics.com/mil...e-corps-tanks/
(Note front of the turret. No APS Sensor.)
21 JULY 2020…
https://www.businessinsider.com/mari...talions-2020-7
(Note the caption of top picture and turret as well.)
06 DEC 2020…
https://news.yahoo.com/tank-marines-...131331371.html
(Original Military.com article. Note picture same as above.)
08 January 2021…
https://www.defenceprocurementintern...d-leonardo-drs

Most of the links aren't working.

As we discussed the USMC never had enough TROPHY systems to outfit all their tanks. But did (usually) mount them on those assigned to MEUs or deployed overseas. So for the sake of "probable" vice "possible" I didn't bother with a non-TROPHY variant.
The same pretty much applies here. PLAN 2030 was implemented when there was no USMC armor deployed anywhere, except the currently active MEUs (i.e. all of four (4) tanks per MEU). So if you saw a tank in actual combat it probably had TROPHY. Any "what if" scenario or Player vs AI/player battle should, in my opinion, be based on "probable' vice "possible'. Thus the TROPHY systems stay in place.
Besides which creating units/formations/picklists to model 2-years of the 80-year period WinSPMBT covers (all of 2.5% of the 80-years) is FAR more trouble then it's worth. Had it been say 8-years that would be a different story

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

As I had even in years past, it's always been my posted intention to repost from the "Patch Thread" the items submitted to their respective equipment threads so the players can comment as they wish once all the issues have been hashed out between us.

Just haven't always done it is all.

Except for the FLW 200 issue we discussed in advance to me posting it we're done.

To FEP, yes, we discussed maintaining the non-TROPHY FEP tanks due to an opening created by a couple of articles talking about tanks in pre-deployment locations and that was being generous at best on our part.

You and I even posted on the fact that we saw no TROPHY SYSTEMS mounted on any USMC tanks being shipped back to the Army.

Would you like for me to find it??

But you along with a small handful of others SHOULD know if TROPHY APS mounted on those tanks than when I built them they would've been submitted as such.

So, I leave you with the following and the understanding I have plenty more if needed. From 25 September 2020...
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news...oes-that-mean/
"The U.S. Marine Corps Were (Mine-WERE) Upgrading their M1A1s

According to Marine Times, the Marine Corps were (Mine-WERE again) in the process of upgrading their M1A1s with:

A slew-to-cue feature that allows the Tank Commander to move the 120mm main gun to where the Commander’s .50cal heavy machine gun is pointed to.

Improved Gunner’s Primary Sight Day and thermal cameras that allows for better resolution and to see further out. A new color camera and color display that allows for better color differentiation than the previous green and black color camera and display.

A new Gunner’s lower panel that allows the M1A1s to use two new types of ammunition developed by the U.S. Army.

New tactical communications radios."

And no TROPHY mentioned. This upgrade boils down to they would've had improved TI/GSR and Ammo that's all. I actually was tracking on this since the FEP tanks lead me down the "rabbit hole" that lead to all things ABRAMS during the 2019/2020 Oh I don't miss it Campaign as I'm sure Don doesn't miss it either. But in the end the CORPS shut me down.

That I'll have to "cull" from the MBT Thread and reverse it into well you know where.

TROPHY has me all fired up now. So, here's the timeline from the Contract section...

"July 21/20: Active Protection System-Trophy General Dynamic Land Systems won a $44.4 million contract modification external link to procure improved fire control electronics units in support of the Abrams expedited active protection system-trophy. M1A1/2 Abrams main battle tank is manufactured by General Dynamics Land Systems (GDLS). The first M1 tank was produced in 1978, the M1A1 in 1985 and the M1A2 in 1986. Army and Marine units intend to use Trophy APS-equipped Abrams main battle tanks to disrupt/destroy certain classes of enemy fire while safely maneuvering across the full range of military operations. Work will take place in Tallahassee, Florida. Estimated completion date is October 1, 2022.
https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com...updated-02834/"

Now here's the inconvenient truth to go with the above this reference looks at the progress made up to April 2021...
"After the March 2020 release of Force Design 2030, Commandant of the Marine Corps Gen. David Berger today released an annual update to the document that lays out the progress already made and the steps still to come, as the service continues to learn more about what it will need to deter evolving threats in the Pacific and around the globe."

Scroll down to Page 4 Ground Combat Element "Bullet 6"
"Completed the divestment of 2 AC (Mine-Active Component) and 1 RC (Mine-Reserve Component) tank battalions."

That's all your tanks gone in one year! And no one can say this "squares" with the DID ref above that the USMC had non-test bed/operational tanks equipped with TROPHY. Not even "Father Time" can change that timeline.
https://news.usni.org/2021/04/26/mar...n-in-the-field
https://s3.documentcloud.org/documen...esign-2030.pdf
(Page 4 Bullet 6)

Regards,
Pat

[Suhiir]

Neither the MPF (Mobile Protected Firepower Light Tank) nor ARV (Advanced Reconnaissance Vehicle) are in the active OOB since they're both "possible" not "probable" nor is there any indication of when they might be employed.

However you'll see the new OOB does have the new mini-drone (thanks to Don and Andy) incorporated into it.
"Much the way the service says every Marine is a rifleman, every Marine is now a sensor, and every system they use must be able to sense and pass that data to whoever needs it most, Smith said."
Not near as many as Force Design 2030 will have (one per infantry squad, the main reason for the new 15-man squad) but one per platoon (more then enough for game purposes). The AI won't be terribly effective using these, but a human will have little trouble seeing what's where across the entire battlefield.
Talk about a Gods Eye view!

"Infantry battalion experimentation is still early in the process, Watson said, but the plan is to increase the rank structure in some of the small units and compare their performance against traditionally manned units.

Part of the need for more experience is driven by an 'arms room' concept, where instead of each Marine specializing in a particular weapon system, and having separate weapons company to bring in further capability, the infantry Marines would be a little more well rounded and able to operate whichever weapon the situation calls for.

We seek to enhance the infantry battalion’s capabilities by adding organic multi-domain sensing (Operations in the Information Environment, Electronic Warfare, and Unmanned Aircraft Systems) capabilities, organic loitering munitions, and increased mobility. One of the changes being evaluated is a shift to an ‘arms room’ concept with the elimination of Weapons Company and the shift of weapons systems formerly associated with Weapons Company, 81mm mortars and the Javelin for example, into the headquarters or rifle companies. This will allow the rifle company to select mission-specific lethality and employ it organically, reads the Force Design annual update."

Where they're going to get all these senior NCOs if they're having trouble with recruiting and retention is beyond me. And the cost of training and maintaining such a force structure will be immense!!! One Javelin missile costs $197,884 and they want to move them from specialized units down to the company level?!?

Without getting into it here I still think the current Commandant has bought into the US Air Force delusion of push button warfare.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Fear not my Marine Buddy, I know where those Senior NCOs can be found.

Starship Troopers that's where they are!!!!
https://www.spacecom.mil/Newsroom/Ne...ice-component/

And I have the evidence and I believe we should qualify, and I have my security clearance as well and you'll just need to get adjudicated.

I think we should go in on the "Buddy System"!?!

First we have to apply...
https://www.marines.mil/News/Message...itute-courses/

Next, we'll train unfortunately that'll be under the USA...
https://taskandpurpose.com/news/mari...space-marines/

Finally, we'll get advanced combat training with our units under simulated real combat situations though the very high "wash out rate" seems somewhat of what might be of a permanent nature but, I'm confident we'll get through.

A friend of mine told of a "black site" that has a secretly video sourced film of the USMC Space Command Advanced Training Center Course (USCATC) at what appears to be 29 Palms Training Center.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?&...6EF&ajaxhist=0

We just need to get sum !!



I can't wait until we get our very own embroidered USCATC ball cap!!!!

That's better than working at NASA!

Regards,
Pat

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

And I have the evidence and I believe we should qualify, and I have my security clearance as well and you'll just need to get adjudicated.

I think we should go in on the "Buddy System"!?!

Oh I have mine. And unless you were working with crypto, hands on with nukes, or the reactor it may be higher then yours

I do however think we both "might" need an age waver.

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

Next, we'll train unfortunately that'll be under the USA...
https://taskandpurpose.com/news/mari...space-marines/

Might be a bit rough for most squids but based on past dealings with the USA I generally consider training with/under them a bit of a vacation. Worry not, I'll help pull you thru.

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

Finally, we'll get advanced combat training with our units under simulated real combat situations though the very high "wash out rate" seems somewhat of what might be of a permanent nature but, I'm confident we'll get through.

As I recall during WW II the Germans considered a 5% fatality rate during training acceptable. And while the SEALS do their very best to keep theirs down (and under wraps) you an I both know given the nature of their training it happens. So no big deal.

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

A friend of mine told of a "black site" that has a secretly video sourced film of the USMC Space Command Advanced Training Center Course (USCATC) at what appears to be 29 Palms Training Center.

Given the location of 29 Stumps in relation to certain USAF black sites seems like a good place to put it.

[DRG]

US to begin training Ukrainian troops on Abrams tank

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/u...anks-rcna80799

RThe United States will begin training Ukrainian forces on how to use and maintain Abrams tanks in the coming weeks, as the it continues to speed up its effort to get them onto the battlefield against Russia as quickly as possible, U.S. officials said Friday.

The decision comes as defense leaders from around Europe and the world are meeting at Ramstein Air Base in Germany in the ongoing effort to coordinate the delivery of weapons and other equipment to Ukraine. An announcement is expected later Friday.

According to the officials, 31 tanks will arrive at Grafenwoehr Training Area in Germany at the end of May, and the troops will begin training a couple of weeks later. Officials said the troop training will last about 10 weeks. The training tanks will not be the ones given to Ukraine as it fights against Russia’s invasion. Instead, 31 M1A1 battle tanks are being refurbished in the United States, and those will go to the frontlines when they are ready.

The goal has been to have the troops trained by the time the refurbished tanks are ready so they can then immediately move to combat. The tanks are being refitted to meet Ukraine’s needs.

According to officials, about 250 Ukrainian troops will be trained — with some learning to operate the tanks and others learning to repair and maintain them. Additional training on how to fight and maneuver with the tanks could also be provided after the initial 10 weeks. The officials spoke on the condition of anonymity to provide details not publicly released.

So training starts mid June and lasts 10 weeks and that brings just basic training to the beginning of September and then there is additional training.... then they have to actually get the tanks.

Going to go with 11/123 start and let reality make adjustments later