MBT's

[zovs66]

this is another interesting article.

I have several modern campaign games where I honestly think that the Soviet and WP equipment is overrated compared to Western equipment.

https://www.businessinsider.com/ukra...ire-2023-7?amp

[zovs66]

Sorry postscript, this is being played out in Ukraine now as we speak (i.e., better Western equipment then Soviet era).

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by zovs66

I honestly think that the Soviet and WP equipment is overrated compared to Western equipment.

I recall once being told "The Soviets can make one highly capable thing, but can't mass produce anything". I've long agreed with this.

Soviet equipment is generally "adequate" but very rarely "good". And given Soviet doctrine this makes sense. Waves of units to overwhelm their opposition. You don't need "the best" merely "good enough" because there's so much of it the opponent can't destroy enough of it fast enough to win.

This is NOT to imply the stereotypical "human wave" approach, of uncaring use of poorly equipped (trained?) units thrown into the meat-grinder. Again, their equipment was "adequate".

It was never on par with that of the "West". In spite of claims/delusions to the contrary.

Are there exceptions? Certainly. Was Soviet equipment occasionally "ground-breaking"? Definitely! (Mass use of the AK47 before the West started using "assault rifles" comes to mind.)

[Karagin]

Okay, hold on. Having seen Western stuff in action and having seen the one part we don't see in Ukraine when the US sends us out to fight, the MIC sends their techs with us. In other words, the folks who know how the crap works are there to make sure it works. That is not to say the mechanics or techs the US military has can't keep it running, that they can do.

What this means, is that these techs are there to make sure the wonder weapons keep work as they were sold as or claimed to work as. Go take a hard look at ever single ABCT and you will see BAE and GDLS techs there working right along side the Army-trained mechanics to keep things running and ready to go. Same in the Air Force and the rest.

Remove those civilian contractors and I am willing to bet our stuff won't be that wonder or superior for long. While it's great to believe in our stuff, let's be realistic about things. We are not ten feet tall nor is our stuff perfect. Remember everything we have is made by the lowest bidder who is looking to make a quick buck or ten. And I can back up my comments with 31 years of dealing with armor and infantry and support units.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well, kind've deals with the previous comments as I turn to the "vaunted" T-14 ARMATA.

Has anyone besides me noticed we haven't heard a darn thing about the ARMATA since early May when apparently the 14 sent into "combat" were used in an artillery role which was unverified except by Moscow?

Or prior to that which has been verified even by Moscow that the frontline units that were assigned to use them basically found the tanks flawed in many aspects of operations and sent them back?

You should've as I know I posted articles related to both issues along with a handful of others.

I haven't checked but I suspect we have them operational which would make that a travesty.

Well, we have the first news of them since about May. Moscow has withdrawn them for "unspecified" reasons only saying that "testing is still ongoing" so they are gone and never were spotted on the battlefield.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...9e273c6c&ei=19

It has also been several months since the T-90M (As was reported here.) has seen combat in the Ukraine frontlines as well. We know they've gotten a handful of new ones, but all are believed to be in Crimea as coming from various sources.

Just checked ORNX with no news on ARMATA and No Change for the T-90M the last (Of 2/1st in Sep 2022. ) captured on 03 Dec. 2022.

I will gladly take the bet that the second is "stateside" or at the very least under our control and the other in the hands of our European allies to include the Ukraine. Those two captures represent an Intelligence coup for the West and will provide valuable insights to the ARMATA as well.

After the ARMATA showing somewhere near the Ukraine (Actually they were near the border in Crimea.) I don't believe we'll see them operational before mid-2024 if then or at all.

To the contractors they rule the military case in point, we had a situation with the navigation system which "was dying" but our techs broke it down and kept that system running a little beyond it's normal "spin down" process.

Today they're not authorized nor are they for the most part trained to do so beyond making Adjustments, PMS, Maintenace and swapping out circuit cards. Anything like what we dealt with has to be done by the contractors responsible for the equipment.

Regards,
Pat

[DRG]

Just before 2023 release I moved the Armata from 2025 to 2023 because of the rumors about it being sent to Ukraine. Just because you haven't heard about it or seen photos of one doesn't mean it's not there but my bet is there might be one or two well back from the front doing field trials........ as for having them in the OOB operational being a "travesty"..... GIMME A *EXPLETIVE DELETED* BREAK PAT !.

Dial the outraged rhetoric back a notch or two....OK? and maybe spending a few minutes checking would be a "good idea".

Everyone has a choice of what to use. You don't think it's available ? DON'T USE IT

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

So, to avoid any confusion, I,m going to break this next down by the "numbers" to make things easy.

Para 1:
"...United States is anticipated to begin delivering Abrams tanks to Ukraine in September."

Para 2:
"As part of the plan, a few Abrams tanks will be sent to Germany in August for final refurbishment before being shipped to Ukraine the following month. "

Para 3:
"The tanks are said to be older M1A1 models, as they can be made available much sooner than the more modern A2 version, which would have taken an additional year to reach Ukraine. "

Para 5:
"The initial shipment will include 6 to 8 tanks. A total of 31 tanks, equivalent to a Ukrainian battalion's strength, are planned to be sent to Ukraine. Pentagon spokesperson Col. Martin O'Donnell declined to provide specific details on the timeline but emphasized the U.S.'s commitment to expedite the process. Before Ukrainian forces can use the tanks, they are required to complete a roughly 10-week training course on 31 trainer tanks at Germany's Grafenwoehr base. According to a separate Defense Department official, the Ukrainian troops are expected to complete their training in August. "

I have discussed the training issue back in May/June, at this time I have nothing to indicate any delays in that process.

Dealing with the tanks, we've CLEARLY seen those tanks going into combat once the Battalions are fully formed. Case in point as was well covered dealt with the M-55S which went through 3 months of training before they were operational.

If we send them 8 tanks a month, we're looking at Feb. 2024 before they become operational. I expect no further delays once all the tanks have arrived to fit out that Battalion, since the training is ongoing and operation unit training will start when the first tanks arrive. I'm starting to think the American training tanks will be used until that Battalion is fully fitted out, thus again making them ready for combat once fully fitted out with their own tanks.

The only mismatched tank Battalion I'm aware of using Western tanks is the one that has the LEOPARD 2A6 and the STRV-122 (Arrived this month.) tanks.

Para 6:
"While there is hope that the tanks could potentially arrive in Ukraine as early as August, uncertainties remain due to the refurbishment process, which involves stripping the older vehicles of sensitive technology, including secret depleted uranium armor. "

Almost my favorite para ^.

https://www.armyrecognition.com/ukra...september.html

Regards,
Pat

[DRG]

By the time we release another update a lot of these dates will be firmed up

[DRG]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdE1pvMEHUI

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well probably won't make many friends with this next but that's OK. What I have is the last USMC Tank Employment/MCWP 3-12 Manual before Plan 2030 and when the CORPS divested all their tanks back to the owner of them the USA. This was officially adopted in March 2014.

You will find no mention of Active Protection System/or APS.
HOWEVER, you will find how to properly disperse your smoke grenades. See F7 & F8 at the end of the document.

Also, we've made the assumption (I believe) that the AMBRAMS can't or doesn't carry troops. In the case of the USMC, it would appear this isn't the case at all, though the word "rare" is used in this context. When to do so is covered. The number carried is 9 Marines.
See 3-6 Figure 3-1 for troop disposition and weapons.

I would further delve into how the USMC has a USA tank formation in the OOB when the use of the games Allie function would seem more appropriate.

It would seem a difficult "reach" as the USA is falling behind in filling out their own units which has further delayed the USA to officially declare the M1A2C/SEP 3 at Full Operation Capability (FOC) unlike they did with the AMPV as reported earlier this Summer.

Funny how when there's a war the resources go to other places, so you don't have to go to war.

There is a lot of REALLY useful information in this document from the player perspective especially for the less experienced players but I saw a couple of things in it I might want to use as well. Of course, TO&E is also covered, ammo etc. etc.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...9bf699cd&ei=13
https://www.marines.mil/Portals/1/Pu...-16-085052-437

Regards,
Pat