MP: Pointy Sticks MA started

[Mightypeon]

On a side note, did you have two assassins with the same "Hermkesborn" name assassinating the same dude (Herrmann) of mine?
Or is it yet another bug?
In my version, 2 normal mage smiths, died.
It also appears that your assassins in fact used their bows, in my versions they tried to run up and got messily killed.

[Mightypeon]

Checking!
My version has an ID conflict indeed.

I would normally instantly blame myself since I am host, however, when I play a turn of Pointy Sticks it is loading the conflict free MC version (under Mods enabled) for me. If my computer was thinking it to be the non MC version (which I also have in my mod directory) it should load this one.
Perhaps something was not correctly cleared/loaded during our quirky game creation? Or during one of llamaservers shutdowns that happened early?

As a warning, there are ID conflicts with the Astral Serpent (929), the dusk dagger and the boots of long strides.

[Mightypeon]

By the way, props for the well thought out tactic, lightning bows on assassins with good precision (your assassins have a natural precision fo 13? Didnt know that) is an excellent idea! The only good chance of getting killed is a turn 1 nuking mage, or an actual thug, and most mages will spend a turn self buffing. Although I am not sure about the odds of hitting, its of course range dependent.

[shatner]

Here is the relevant info from the version of Black Rose of Ulm. Note that my version doesn't even use weaponId 927 yet seemingly yours does!?

#modname "Ulm Black Rose v0.282b MC edition"
#description "Re-envisions MA Ulm"
#icon "./Ulm_Black_Rose/UlmBlackRoseBanner.tga"
#version 0.282

--Version MC 0.282 beta
--Author: Squirrelloid
--Intended for use with CBM 1.84 or later, but should be useable without. Please see CBM 1.84 + Ulm Black Rose dm for combined mods.
--This is an MC version of the mod which makes it wholly separate from the MA Ulm nation. Not that you'd ever want to play regular MA Ulm when this was available. Shares unique heroes with MA Ulm.

--Uses
---NationID 84
---Sites 855-857
---WeaponID 710, 713, 715, 717, 726, 945-950
---ArmorID NONE
---UnitID 2840 (Locksmith, from WH), 3953-3979 (Ulm units copied to be modified), 3980-3998 (new units)

--MC Notes
---A lot of stuff from CBM is copied into here without change. Specifically a number of weapons, and unit 2840.
---Drain Magic has been slightly altered from CBM by reducing its fatigue cost, this should just create a new version of the spell. I have slightly modified the name of the spell herein by adding a space after the name.
---I just sort of guessed at something reasonable for Province Defense
---There doesn't seem to be any way to set tower weapons for sieges. Bother.

--Beta Notes
--Placeholder graphics: Inner Circle of the Black Rose pretender
--Undone in this version but intended: +3 nation specific pretenders: Reason Incarnate, Fallen Grandmaster of the Black Rose, Great Engineer. Possibly +1 spell: Malediction
--All spell placement and costs tentative

Here is the relevant info from the version of CBM 1.92

#modname "Conceptual Balance Complete 1.92"
#description "This is the Conceptual Balance mod for Dominions 3. The mod aims to increase the number of viable choices available to players. While the base game includes a huge amount of content, much of it would always be avoided by a seasoned player. In CBM, hopefully, almost all content may find a use, if only in a niche strategy. A small amount of new content is also added with balance in mind."
#version 1.92
#icon "CBM_Sprites/cbcomplete.tga"
#domversion 3.26


-- USES THE FOLLOWING MOD SLOTS

-- Monsters: 2795-2919, 3400-3444
-- Weapons: 710-728, 751-779, 808-809, 900-919, 927-931, 974-976
-- Armors: 237-239,244-274
-- Sites: 800-802, 858-879, 882-885

[shatner]

Originally Posted by Mightypeon

By the way, props for the well thought out tactic, lightning bows on assassins with good precision (your assassins have a natural precision fo 13? Didnt know that) is an excellent idea! The only good chance of getting killed is a turn 1 nuking mage, or an actual thug, and most mages will spend a turn self buffing. Although I am not sure about the odds of hitting, its of course range dependent.

Thanks. I was pleased when I came up with the idea and then thrilled when I ran a test game and found it to work exceedingly well (something like a 90% success rate).

The fact is, I've spent a huge number of mage turns and air gems on forging these bows and handing them to commanders (not just assassins, though plenty of those) and all that activity was founded on assumptions which are now looking shaky because of this mod conflict. It'd be like playing Jomon and planning on outfitting lots of spirit thugs with cheap frost brands, playing through 30 turns and spending gobs of research, mage-turns and water gems forging frost brands only to find out that frost brands now offer poison resistance to the holder instead of doing AoE cold damage... it kinda throws your train off the rails.

[Mightypeon]

I can definitly feel your pain, although I am not quite sure what can be done to adress it in this game.
I am obviously also biased, as, despite my hopefully amusing propaganda attempts, Pythium is very far from beaten.

[shatner]

Originally Posted by Mightypeon

I can definitly feel your pain, although I am not quite sure what can be done to adress it in this game.

I don't think much of anything can be done for this game to fix the mod conflict issue, unless Llamaserver allows mid-game mod changes (I'll raise a flag with llamabeast and see what he says on the matter).

However, we know that your version of Black Rose of Ulm and/or your version of CBM 1.92 differ from mine since I don't have this conflict of Ids and you do. Therefore, I'd really like to find out exactly why our versions differ so that we can know that I downloaded an old version of some mod or that I accidentally edited my version of some mod or that there is an actual conflict between MC Black Rose and CBM 1.92 or any of a half-dozen other combinations. Even if we can't fix things for this game, I'd really like your help in tracking down exactly why things went wrong in this game so llamabeast/squirrelloid can be notified of a problem with their mods or so we'll know how to handle including Black Rose of Ulm in a CBM 1.92 game without incident. After all, win or lose, I'd like to play this variant of Ulm myself in some future MP game but I can't really do that if the mod may or may not be buggy.

EDIT: I justed PMed llamabeast to see if there is a way we can correct the mod definition used by this game. If so, we can correct this id conflict, ensure everyone has a corrected version of the mod and then we can move forward with me shooting you full of lightning bolts, as was intended.

[Mightypeon]

The problem in itself is simple I think.
I first downloaded a version of Black Rose that was around the time of CBM 1.82.
Squirrel later entered a first Mod compatible version (which did not have the conflict with normal CBM, but afaik one with Svarogia), which was later replaced by a version (which you have) that has both conflicts with Svarogia and with CBM fixed.

To reiterate, I have 2 versions of black rose Ulm on my laptop, one that is called Black rose, the old version with the weapon conflict, and a new version that does not have the weapon conflict and supposedly gets loaded on starting a pointy sticks gamefile. Interstingly, if I delete the old version that is not supposed to be loaded, I can no longer run Pointy Sticks.

For some reason, and that reason could very well be an user error on my side, or be attributable towards either our quirky game start (caused by having spaces in the black rose Ulm .dm file), or other llamaserver issues.

I can easily explain how llamaserver ended up with loading the old version, user error by me after repeatedly trying to start it is a very propable explanation. What I cant explain at all is why my game shows to be loading the MC version while actually loading something outdated...

[Mightypeon]

The problem in itself is simple I think.
I first downloaded a version of Black Rose that was around the time of CBM 1.82.
Squirrel later entered a first Mod compatible version (which did not have the conflict with normal CBM, but afaik one with Svarogia), which was later replaced by a version (which you have) that has both conflicts with Svarogia and with CBM fixed.

To reiterate, I have 2 versions of black rose Ulm on my laptop, one that is called Black rose, the old version with the weapon conflict, and a new version that does not have the weapon conflict and supposedly gets loaded on starting a pointy sticks gamefile. Interstingly, if I delete the old version that is not supposed to be loaded, I can no longer run Pointy Sticks.

For some reason, and that reason could very well be an user error on my side, or be attributable towards either our quirky game start (caused by having spaces in the black rose Ulm .dm file), or other llamaserver issues.

I can easily explain how llamaserver ended up with loading the old version, user error by me after repeatedly trying to start it is a very propable explanation. What I cant explain at all is why my game shows to be loading the MC (no conlflict) version while actually loading something outdated...

[shatner]

Can you extend the hosting for this turn by 24 hours? A friend's having an all-day bachelor party thingy and while I had hoped to get my turn in this morning before it started, that is becoming increasingly unlikely.