Fools Lament II - Ended - Mictlan wins!!!

[Huzurdaddi]

I'm a pretty new player (this is my 4th MP game, none completed)

Uh hun. I doubt I have any more than that.

My ogres are shaking in their green booties...
- come teach me a lesson in winning in multi-player games...

Tough talk from a person who has 2 allies attacking me at the same time.

I have little time for people who instigate dogpiles. I hope I am able to crush you. I will laugh at how pathetic you are if you can not kill me with 3 people attacking me at the same time.

Seriously, pathetic.

[Huzurdaddi]

Oh yeah, I think we are all playing for fun here

Well yes and no. You know how much I despise dogpiles. They seem to always happen though. We'll see how this works out.

[Soapyfrog]

Huzurdaddi said:
Well yes and no. You know how much I despise dogpiles. They seem to always happen though. We'll see how this works out.

Becuase they are singularly logical. The best way to pursue a military conflict is with overwhelming force, with as many allies as you can muster.

Napoleon's dictum was "I would rather fight Allies than be one" and look where that got him

If, in fact, 3 nations cannot beat you, then their dogpiling will have been thoroughly justified

In the meantime... fight allies with allies!

[Yossar]

Look at the graphs. Ermor is #1 in provinces, forts (by a huge margin), gem income, army size, and victory points, and 2nd in research and dominion. At this point Ermor isn't going to be beaten without multiple people attacking him. It's not unfair, unexpected, or illogical that an Ermor dogpile happens when Ermor is so far in the lead. I don't know how you could have avoided it, but it isn't unheard of for Ermor to make some friends of his own. Maybe he'd have to bribe them, but a bribed ally is better than no ally. I won my Last game by allying with Ermor, persuading everyone else to focus on him, and then picking off people when they were only thinking of Ermor. Ermor and I ended up as the two strongest nations, but I managed to amass a bit more power than he did before the final showdown.

[Huzurdaddi]

Look at the graphs. Ermor is #1 in provinces, forts (by a huge margin), gem income, army size, and victory points, and 2nd in research and dominion.

Ha! The margin is not large in any of those statistics. And the army graph is as always not horribly useful since it is quality of troops which generally determine battles not quanity. I would much rather have one vine ogre than one ermorian undead. And the ratio is nearly there.

#1 in gems means I have a rainbow. My mistake. Wanted to play around, should have made an SC.

As for the forts, what do you think I am going to spend my money on? Forts == troops for Ermor.

At this point Ermor isn't going to be beaten without multiple people attacking him

Making an assessment like that from the graphs is totally crazy. *if* I survive what is currently going on the method through which I do it will totally not be captured by the graphs. I can only hope that I do survive but the only way is via a great difference in .. well I won't get into it.

The best way to pursue a military conflict is with overwhelming force

Got to agree with that though. Completely logical.

If, in fact, 3 nations cannot beat you, then their dogpiling will have been thoroughly justified

If they can not beat me, well you know what it means. There should be *no way* that I could survive this. None, zero, zip.

[Huzurdaddi]

Oh and Yossar you should know how inaccurate the graphs can be. You are playing Mictlain. The graphs totally do not capture your power. They capture but the smallest fraction of it.

However I have to say that without soul contrats your power is greatly limited. OTOH it just means more vampires.

[Soapyfrog]

Well Vampire Lords may not summon allies, as per our house rules, so they may not be the best play either.

[Huzurdaddi]

Anyway I don't want to be a sour puss anymore. I'll just take my lumps.

Time to go look at the destruction rained upon me.

[Yossar]

Huzurdaddi said:

Making an assessment like that from the graphs is totally crazy. *if* I survive what is currently going on the method through which I do it will totally not be captured by the graphs. I can only hope that I do survive but the only way is via a great difference in .. well I won't get into it.

Who would you think is even close to being more powerful than you? Pangaea? Vine ogres are great tanks, but aren't too hard to deal with with their horrible defense and MR. Your research and gem income are much better than Pangaea's. Your army is large but mostly worthless, but your research and gems you clearly have the ability to mix quite a few tougher units in there. The graphs leave a lot to be desired (but with no hidden gem income from clams, etc. the graphs are better than usual) but that and a bit of scouting are all most people have to go by for information. And they show you to clearly be in first place. The only nations that are really hard to gauge from the graphs are the blood nations. Who knows what kind of blood income Mictlan, Abysia, Jotun, and Vanheim have? And how many ice and arch devils have been summonned? The graphs aren't going to show that. I guess it is a bit telling that I'm the only other nation with a second Victory Point, though.

[Huzurdaddi]

Who would you think is even close to being more powerful than you?

Uhm, let's see: Marignon, Man, Arcosphale, Matchaka, or T'ien Ch'i( he's doing a great job with a nation considered weak)?

WRT: the troops graph, Pangea's statistics look very good due to free spawns. Man's stats are 100% quality troops. I've been fighting him those numbers ain't archers. They are Vine Ogres. Which are FINE troops in those numbers let me assure you.

Vine ogres are great tanks, but aren't too hard to deal with with their horrible defense and MR.

Unless you have access to 'save or die' spells that's a lot of HP to pound through. They Last a long time. All that time his mages pound the crap out of you. He needs those mages anyway to lead that number of magical units he might as well use them.

Hey if you have a good way to obliterate crazy numbers of vine ogres I am all ears. Remember this is hard research. Don't go telling me to spam nether darts or use disintegrate those are a little too high. No soul slay either I'm not Arcosphale or Pythium. No polymorph it's too high up and I'm a death nation. Wrathful skies would be great. Sadly I'm not Caelum. I've basically got to pound through those HP. I ( very sadly ) had to use Behomoths Last time to crush his 1st army and it hurt me way more than it hurt him. Those are expensive units and they are suboptimal against such large troops I would have much rather used them against Ulm or marignon, but Man forced my hand.

(but with no hidden gem income from clams, etc. the graphs are better than usual

This is 100% correct. They are still flawed but they are *much* better than normal where they have almost no link to reality!

And they show you to clearly be in first place.

By how much, exactly? I have 1 province more than 1 nation and 3 other nations are lagging me by 1 more. Sounds like spin to me, honestly. 5 nations are basically in a tie for research. We've already discussed the army graph -- it's pretty much worthless. The only graph I am ahead by is gems and sadly that is due to a rainbow pretender which is why I am in this pickle. If I had an SC I would wipe away the chaff before me.

If I'm ahead then it ain't by much 4-5 nations are pretty darn close. And one more ( man ) has a lot more strength ( due to I have to conceed a very nice equipping of mages ) than the graphs show.

Who knows what kind of blood income Mictlan, Abysia, Jotun, and Vanheim have

Well it's kind of irrelevant since I think you are the only one being played by a human. I have little doubt where the 11 SCs will land. Anytime I have played Mictlain and been left alone for as long as you have it's been trouble for the rest of the world. However you are missing Soul Contracts, lucky for us or the game would basically be decided by now.

Anyway I'll fight it out. Who knows what will happen. Maybe some random fortune will save me or something. We'll see.