MBT's

[DRG]

The AI chooses units from a picklist and it only picks from ONE picklist.

The " Allied" / "Captured" feature is for human use only so is of no use to the AI when it chooses units

So.....the USMC has US Army assets available to USMC starting 7/2021 primarily for the AI to use. The > 7/2021 formations COULD HAVE been " renationalized" so the human player would not see them in the game but the AI would see them but then we would have to explain over and over why there are no tanks to select in USMC > 7/21.

Players preferring to see the US ID tag for armour units >7 /21 are encouraged to use the ALLIES function and then their Marines will have properly ID's US Army tanks but that is not an option for the AI

Doing it the way it was done simplified matters ( K.I.S.S.). In RL the USMC can request US Army armour support if the mission requires armour and that's what we have but they will be tagged USMC UNLESS the human player buys for the USMC and uses the Allied button to buy armour > 7/21

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

To be truthful forgot about AI, however, would think the ABRAMS SEP 2 the much more realistic tank option here.

I rechecked the ARMY.MIL website and still no press releases in a longtime about M1A2C with NONE announcing FOC unlike when they did so for the M1A2 SEP 2 which drove my submission for that tank.

Plenty about ABRAMS for foreign sales/donations though.

Will need to push it (M1A2C) to the right again.

Regards,
Pat

[Mobhack]

The MBT game uses a data driven pick list, unlike the WW2 one which does it all in large lumps of pick code. That was done for flexibility, but in retrospect not an approach i would do again.

The code driven approach in WW2 allows me to use a "PickAliedNation (formationID)" function wot I rote, say for UK planes if it was an ANZAC pick V Italy in the desert. So the air support (and maybe armour too) - might have UK ID tags, UK leader names and values etc. should you have ID tags on and look at them.

But the data driven model (the dat files are put together in spreadsheets then the numbers extracted by column to dat files) - was not really conducive to a "PickAllied()" function. Every formationID column in the spreadsheet would have needed an extra column for foreign OOB ID, at the very least. And then you would have had to select 2 columns to extract and port to the DAT file, and the wrangling of that picklist data and the umpty-five pick files per OOB is already bad enough! - Yep, the "flexibility" that the approach seemed to offer - really wasn't in retrospect. If I did it again, loads of embedded C code wins out!

I think only 2 OOB designers of ours ever really tried editing picklists, and Suhir has been the main such for the USMC - and it was a real task for them to get thier heads around. Yep, once again, dedicated code for the win, not databases!

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Just a "quick" post here as I have an early morning appt.

The following covers losses on both sides in the Ukrainian War, they were compiled from several "open source" sites and agencies in brief ORNX and British Intelligence plus others tracking (As noted at the very bottom of the article.) these issues.

Data was compiled from Feb. 2022 through Sep. 2023.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...uary_2022.html

Have a great day!

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

As I had pointed out many times in well over the last year plus, the Ukrainian War will be won or lost by original or updated variants of Soviet era tanks and some newer ones since.

The plain truth is the NATO countries don't have the tanks to spare as most, as with our ABRAMS are being modernized for their own defense.

This article does discuss this issue along with a cheaper and easier possible solution which the Ukraine already has some of as pictured in the article as well.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/news...6112ed49d&ei=6
(From FORBES)

Current Ukrainian armor losses from ORNX. Foreign units are shown by their Country flags as are Russian captured ones by both Soviet and current flag.

A couple that caught my eye are the M-55S which was pretty much the first foreign tank to serve and the longest; listed at the top of the list on the GOOD.

And the Bradley ODAS well, it ain't pretty as it's from us and that means everyone incapacitated is a propaganda victory for the Russians and the numbers show that. They might have ~20 left at this point after the last shipment.
https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/0...ukrainian.html

Regards,
Pat

[DRG]

So it would appear that the UKR unit 18 "T-72 Avenger" is the T-72EA .... ?

That IS the upgraded 72M1

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I believe them to be separate tanks I don't believe the T-72 AVENGER had the engine upgrade and seems the T-72EA might have a slightly better vision system as well. ERA was factory installed by "EA" as well

The T-72 AVENGER (Crowd Funded.) available in 2022 with the T-72EA (Govt.Internationally Funded) earlier this this year.

Both are manufactured by EXCALIBUR ARMOR (EA ^^^^)
[b]https://www.excaliburarmy.cz/
https://www.excaliburarmy.cz/main-battle-tanks-p12
https://www.excaliburarmy.cz/services

Regards,
Pat

[Suhiir]

[quote=FASTBOAT TOUGH;855139] Well probably won't make many friends with this next but that's OK. What I have is the last USMC Tank Employment/MCWP 3-12 Manual before Plan 2030 and when the CORPS divested all their tanks back to the owner of them the USA. This was officially adopted in March 2014.

You will find no mention of Active Protection System/or APS.
HOWEVER, you will find how to properly disperse your smoke grenades. See F7 & F8 at the end of the document.

Also, we've made the assumption (I believe) that the AMBRAMS can't or doesn't carry troops. In the case of the USMC, it would appear this isn't the case at all, though the word "rare" is used in this context. When to do so is covered. The number carried is 9 Marines.

Regards,
Pat
[/QUOTE

In the case of the USMC "last deployment" is far less important then "last active unit employing". I saw USMC infantry trained on 3.5in bazookas and M79 GLs (fired one myself) in 1974, M1919 MGs were used on the Ontos till 1969. During Dessert Storm (1991) I carried an M870 12ga and my Co XO had an M79, many of the SNCOs had M1911s (tho they were officially phased out in 1986, and more would have had more been available).

As to the APS, as I said previously the USMC never had enough to equip all of it's tanks, but did have enough to equip all tanks deployed in MEUs and most, if not all, tanks at 29 Palms. We can assume when the USMC divested itself of tanks the APS systems were given to the US Army, but to my knowledge the US Army as never employed the system outside testing so they may well be sitting in a USMC warehouse alongside M1903s, putees, and actual swords (as opposed to the dress ones used for ceremonies). As far as I know it's more-or-less a "bolt on" system so could be fairly easily equipped.

Tank Riders: While OFFICIALLY the Abrams certainly does not carry troops the lack of vehicles in the USMC (as compared to the US Army) means people can, will, and do ride anything when needed. NO it's not doctrine, but it happens, regularly. As to 9 riders, rather then create new units it's easier to just fudge a bit.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Don't bring up U.S. ABRAMS W/APS without expecting a response.

There is no mention of the USMC in the first ref. from 2017.

A BCT was equipped with APS TROPHY under an emergency funding measure and deployed to Europe for an exercise and to be forward deployed in Europe.

I reported on this all along in this thread at the time. The problem for the USMC is that these articles blow the notion that the CORPS had them "out of the water" as there's no mention of them (USMC) and it doesn't fit the timeline (When the USA got them as compared to the game and also as related to when the USMC "Sunset" their tanks.) the at all based on these articles and MANY others.

Introduction: Meet Col. Glenn Dean from ref. 1 2017.
The U.S. Army has decided to equip a brigade’s worth of Abrams M1A2 SEP 2 tanks with the Trophy Active Protection System and urgently field them to the European theater, Col. Glenn Dean, the program manager for Stryker, who also manages the service’s (USA) effort to install APS on combat vehicles, told Defense News.

As reported on 09 Oct. 2017
https://www.defensenews.com/digital-...ection-system/

As reported on 20 Jul. 2020
https://taskandpurpose.com/news/army...system-europe/
https://militaryleak.com/2020/07/20/...ps-to-germany/

I have never said the USMC wasn't involved in the testing and the following bears that out so...

The next is from the USA as released on 30 Jan. 2020 it is an Executive Summary of the Army's APS/IRON FIST Programs.

I start with the 2ND PAGE/LEFT SIDE under TROPHY APS ...

"In September 2017, the Army completed Phase I testing.
Phase I testing also included 10 Marine Corps Abrams tests
with moving vehicle and inert threats."

Next below ...

"In September 2019, the Army completed Phase II testing,
which included:
- Operational testing at Fort Bliss, Texas, from November
28 through December 14, 2018. An armored platoon
outfitted with Trophy APS-equipped M1A2 SEPv2 tanks
successfully conducted maneuver and gunnery test events.
The test unit completed Trophy APS familiarization training,"

After the Phase I testing the USMC and the M1A1 ABRAMS are no longer mentioned except in the "washout" further below. As you can plainly see this document covers FY 2019 which as a reminder means it covers the period from Oct. 2018 - Sep. 2019.

For the USMC in the "washout" portion...

"The Army and Marine Corps completed 62 live fire tests..."

"Live fire testing included inert unguided threats fired against either a fully functional Abrams SEPv2 or Marine M1A1 tanks (Phase I testing in 2017.) equipped with Trophy..."

Lower Right Corner in preparation for continued Phase III testing ...

"Recommendations
The Army should:
1. Ensure Trophy Phase III testing is designed to examine
areas identified as a concern in Phase II.
2. Continue to develop and advance the appropriate modeling
and simulation tools needed to support the test planning and
evaluation of systems equipped with APS.
3. Include test events designed to assess logistical
considerations for maintenance and counter munition
resupply.
4. Conduct additional testing to further assess installation and
transportability considerations"
https://www.dote.osd.mil/Portals/97/...0of%20vehicles.

Who generated the above?
https://www.dote.osd.mil/

USMC TANKS
The first tanks were already heading to Army depots in the Summer of 2020.

The final tank unit (U.S. Marines' 1st Tank Battalion Camp Pendelton, Ca.) was officially deactivated on 21 May 2021.
https://www.upi.com/Defense-News/202...1381622057088/

The 50 remaining M1A1 tanks were located in different locations globally (Somewhere near Europe and Asia.) on forward based Pre-Positioning ships (We called them "Fasts" or "Faster Targets" in my world.) curtesy of the USN.

They were turned over stateside to the Army between Oct. - Dec. 2022

Regards,
Pat

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

Don't bring up U.S. ABRAMS W/APS without expecting a response.

Regards,
Pat

https://www.mca-marines.org/wp-conte...ive-System.pdf

Looks like the date of getting the system should have been 2018 not 2017.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aladW_D4nKU
At 2:14 minutes.