MBT's - Page 176

FASTBOAT TOUGH · #**1751** February 22nd, 2024, 03:38 AM

The more "near term" issue and something I was going to bring up a couple of years ago is I believe we should enter the current leased tanks in the Dutch OOB.

By the terms of the lease and a treaty that's in place the Dutch can use those tanks at any time for the defense of the Netherlands. Remember they are crewed by Dutch tankers. Given the times; this logically would make sense, and this is a wargame.

The Dutch realized not long after they got rid of their tanks that they had made a miscalculation, hence the lease deal with Germany.

Though initially the plan was for the Dutch to buy back those tanks from Germany and then donate them to the Ukraine, that didn't happen.

The Germans were hesitate about doing this because the Dutch have leased the most current version of the LEOPARD 2A6MA2.

What the Dutch and Denmark did was to order new LEOPARD 2A4 tanks too donate to the Ukraine instead.
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/n...tanks-for-kyiv

Germany would send the Ukraine 16 slightly older versions of the LEOPARD 2A6 as I submitted and addressed for last year's submission.

SUMMARY:

NETHERLANDS/ADD/LEOPARD 2A6M2/START JUN 2018/END DEC 2025/COPY/GERMAN/LEOPARD 2A6M/UNIT 037. // By June 2018 the German/Dutch 44 Battalion would've been equipped with 40 tanks. The tanks they received were the LEOPARD 2A6M2 (Ref. 3 below.) . This same tank would serve as the "bridge" for the 2A7/2A7V. I believe they still operate these tanks presently but will need to verify this through my German sources. This is supported by the below refs.

Next in quotes from Ref. 1

"The Netherlands transferred to Germany the last 18 stored Dutch Leopard 2A6s. The Germans upgraded the tanks to the 2A7 standard then formed a new squadron under the German army’s Tank Battalion 414. A hundred Dutch soldiers joined the battalion, somewhat easing the German army’s manpower shortage.

The battalion is under German command but, in wartime, could support Dutch troops as part of a wider NATO operation. In effect, the Netherlands is leasing some of the tanks it once owned. "

The other 120 Dutch LEOPARD 2A6 tanks went to Finland I believe we made happen in the game.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidax...h=65d2ca4035f1
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/20/w...pean-army.html
https://www.army-technology.com/news...tanks/?cf-view

Regards,
Pat

DRG · #**1752** February 22nd, 2024, 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

SUMMARY:

[b]NETHERLANDS/ADD/LEOPARD 2A6M2/START JUN 2018/END DEC 2025/COPY/GERMAN/LEOPARD 2A6M/UNIT 037.

???

Pat.... did you look at the Netherlands OOB unit 038??

That is the exact same tank as "GERMAN/LEOPARD 2A6M/UNIT 037."

Only the start date is slightly different because I gave the Dutch the updated version because there was NO POINT not to

.......and it's the 414th not 44th

https://www.defensenews.com/global/e...needs-funding/

Quote:

Since 2015, the country has leased 18 Leopard 2 A6 tanks from Germany that form one of five companies within the German-Dutch 414 Tank Battalion.

https://english.defensie.nl/organisa...anised-brigade

Quote:

The Mechanised Brigade has been part of the German 1st Panzer Division since 17 March 2016. 43 Mechanised Brigade’s 414 Tank Battalion is a fully integrated German - Dutch battalion. This form of cooperation is unique within NATO.

MarkSheppard · #**1753** February 22nd, 2024, 09:12 PM

https://twitter.com/TheDeadDistrict/...29181864595810

Quote:

The Russian army is using the T-54-3 tank (adopted in 1951) in assault in Robotyne direction.

Previously T-54/55s were used only in artillery roles but recently Russians started using them in direct assaults as well.

(video of FPV drone smoking up an abandoned T-54-3.)

DRG · #**1754** February 22nd, 2024, 10:28 PM

ROTFLMAO

I'm not even surprised

I am NOT adding this as a new unit for this year. T-54-3 is already in the Russian OOB and if anyone wants one they can build a scenario with one easily enough

FASTBOAT TOUGH · #**1755** February 23rd, 2024, 05:00 AM

We just came out of a Navy wide 2-week exercise plus prep prior to it. Dec saw us involved in another one week one even more important than the above which rolls around every 2-3 years and is considered the "mother of them all" that involved 3 months of prep just about.

On that one we scored 100% in all areas (We're contract armed security along w/Bangor WA. there are no others left in the military we're pretty "niche".) and DON military/Civil Service Police scored a 95% that made us #1 in this cycle.

Best we've done but it all meant no "peace for the weary" and Spring Training Opening weekend this Sunday will be the cure.

So yes, I checked the OOB by nomenclature name (refs.) and visual check yesterday morning revealed it was right under the "NL" LEO's but when I posted it was "invisible".

To make matters worse I realized we discussed this about 2-3 years ago by my notes and noted it as "fixed".

It seems to have confirmed my decision (Early Nov.) NOT to submit any submissions this year for the next patch as I saw the direction work would take and my need for normalcy away from work.

Things were interesting enough last year and though all was resolved, and a lot was accomplished I didn't feel like going through that again and felt it might've gotten worse had I tried this year.

I respect the working relationship very much and I just prefer to keep it that way. What I have can wait.

I've sketched out my plan and I won't have the final piece of the puzzle until mid-March or so. And hope to post the results of my "research" sometime in Apr./May.

Sorry for the confusion; and I'm like a couple of my co-workers are just going to enjoy the "after-glow" of our 100% and results as just concluded.
https://www.usff.navy.mil/Exercises/...Solid-Curtain/

We worked hard for it over the last 5+ months and maintain our vigilance but to also decompress a notch or two.

Yes, I take my job seriously and I can assure you we don't get paid "Mall Cop" pay.

And as I said that starts Sunday with my best friend in the Universe CINCLANTHOME.

Have a great weekend everyone!!

Regards,
Pat

MarkSheppard · #**1756** February 23rd, 2024, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRG

ROTFLMAO
I am NOT adding this as a new unit for this year. T-54-3 is already in the Russian OOB and if anyone wants one they can build a scenario with one easily enough

It might be worth adding this tip for scenario designers:

Go into the Scenario Editor:

Set your battle date to sometime modern (2022-2024):

Buy your initial Russian HQ + force; hit DONE.

Buy initial Ukrainian HQ and force; HIT DONE.

Spin the battle date back to 1955 or so (after selecting another nation for Ukraine).

Buy all the T-54A and T-54-3 (or obsolete kit) you need for your Special Military Operation Russians in 2024. Hit DONE.

Spin the battle date back to 2024 and select Ukrainians again.

You now got your obsolete units in the scenario (this trick only works for stuff built in the scenario editor though)

Suhiir · #**1757** February 23rd, 2024, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkSheppard

It might be worth adding this tip for scenario designers:

Go into the Scenario Editor:

Another "trick" I use often is:

Even if your battle is intended to be a "Meeting engagement" or "Advance" you can switch it to an "Assault" if you want some, but not all of one side "dug in" or you want to add a few mines/dragons teeth/wire/etc. to one side or another. After you buy and deploy the mines etc. and/or deploy ONLY the units you want "dug in" switch it from "Assault" back to "Meeting" or "Advance".

FASTBOAT TOUGH · #**1758** March 10th, 2024, 04:43 PM

Don,
Understand the "clock" is fast winding down but, this just came across reading my "Sunday Papers" it would appear the Ukrainians just very recently added "wire cage armor" to all of their CHALLENGER 2 tanks on the sides and lower half of the front hull.

Ref. has very good pictures of both. If reporting it now would think FEB. "probably" a good START month for them.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...n_threats.html

Regards,
Pat

DRG · #**1759** March 10th, 2024, 06:57 PM

In game terms it adds nothing. It may make them feel safer though.

Slat in-game makes any armour it is placed on 35 HEAT protection and assumes that is more than what it was but the Chally already has more than that. Making the side heat 35 would be a 15 cm DOWNGRADE in protection

The only area it would benefit is the rear hull and that photo does not show it and the caption is "wire cage armor mounted on the sides of the hull." not the rear. Find me a photo of it across the back an I will make the rear hull 35. Even the early Challys had more Heat side armour than 35

FASTBOAT TOUGH · #**1760** March 10th, 2024, 11:41 PM

I found your last very useful since I wasn't aware of the relationship between "slat" and HEAT armor in the game.

No worries then, that "slat" isn't mounted on the rear as I checked that against other sources because when I read the article, I found it strange they didn't mount it on the rear much like we dealt with on the T-55S last year ++ (Slat).

Added after posting.

Speaking of the T-55S the Russians appear to have a very effective precision 152mm round. The drone was "painting" the tank for the round but, it's the angle of attack that caught my attention.
https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status...0ba084d28b4935

Regards,
Pat