MBT's

[DRG]

Slat armour is designed to defeat RPG's and in game terms, it gives HEAT protection where in many cases there wasn't any HEAT protection before .....like an M113

The only thing that slat armour might do on a Chally is IMHO.. stop an RPG from messing up the Chobham which is a HELL of a lot more expensive and rare in Ukraine than steel slats which are almost a dime a dozen

So it does serve a purpose just not one the game covers.....cheap armour protecting the expensive and hard-to-replace armour

A secondary purpose of that slat might be as a place to stuff foliage for camouflage

ALSO look at any photo of slat on other vehicles.




There is a space/gap between the slat and the hull ( Like Schürzen in WW2 though it was there more to slow down AT rifle rounds)



. There is no gap on that photo of the Chally

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Wondered why they didn't "space" it on CHALENGER like they did on the T-55S (Though the gap isn't as much as some but, it's there. Most likely time constraints possibly.).

Good info-Thanks!

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

The following is "off topic" but I thought it something different to offer a break from the ordinary and fill space while we await the patch.

What you'll see Fast Attack Submarines performing SINKEX's with MK-48 torpedoes and Harpoons including air launches of the Harpoon.

OSPREY Ops landing and takeoff from a Carrier (CVN-70 Carl Vinson).

Coastal USN interdiction vessel and the

USMC conducting training a "take down" of a vessel at sea.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/video/webc...28062fd&ei=168

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well, this next makes me reminisce about our "long lost" N. Korean
resident expert Marcello who'll you'll find in this thread in the early stages of it concerning N. Korea and others.

So, N. Korea has unveiled an improved version of the M2020.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...14_armata.html

The new version has appeared in "counter wargames" to the one we just wrapped up with the S. Koreans I believe it was just this past week.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...peninsula.html

I've had a long day as it was time for my annual weapons qual.

For now, though I see a couple of issues of non-concern for the K1A2 or K2 tanks due to the fact that I agree with the above ref. that it looks like N. Korea built both the M2020 AND M2024 using rivets on the hull and at least the forward part of the turret.

The older method pre-dating WWII was to build them using the "cast method" more modern tanks currently use the "wielded method" as it's more efficient and stronger.

In WWI rivets were used but it wasn't a big deal since hardly anything was available to counter them. However, they were also used in ship building most famously on the Titanic.

Bottomline, you couldn't pay me enough to take either one into battle.

The below ref. will show this clearly in the top picture if you "blow it up". These tanks I feel are however probably more capable than their current fleet of tanks in service from what I can see so far.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...ef814db&ei=33#

As a note of possible future concern is that their main tank factory has in the last 3-4 years or doubled in size.

I need some rack time so Good Whatever!?!

Regards,
Pat

[DRG]

Pat

As usual, it's the middle of the night

Two things I need.

(1)Are these the "rivets" you spoke of ? ( Red arrow )



If yes that does not looks like it might be anything but add on spaced or NK composite armour. At least those ones have the look of something real and not sheet metal Potemkin tanks as in the previous links of them driving on parade.

Especially in that location where "mud guard" might be a better description

(2) How did Kim Boy Dumpling ( Blue arrow )


actually get through the drivers hatch?

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

To the "RED" I strongly believe so as the ref. first analysis also suggests.

To the "BLUE" lots of grease with a quick change to a matching outfit.

This can all wait we need more info I've got the main gun and ATGW fairly figured out but need more time for the rest.

Again, these are not for a parade these both have been seen in numbers enough for us to enter in a large exercise.

Now to work.

Regards,
Pat

[DRG]

I totally agree with one comment on https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/new-north-korean-mbt/ in regards to the ones shown on parade

the tanks in those pictures look so fake… i don’t know if it’s the light or the poor resolution, but they just look like cardboard glued over another tank model.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

As you know I like those guys you've ref'd and have many times used them for refs. for my submissions.

Alright seems you want to pick my brain a little more, OK, the number of road wheels seems reminiscent to an issue that came up of another possible T-72 variant the three of us were discussing (As posted in my last.) many years back in this thread involving an extended version of the T-72 with some other possible improvements.

They've got larger engines that would more than adequately fit and support a heavier extended T-72.

What would be the quickest way to put together a "shell" made of steel plates and keep costs down and produce them quickly?

Cut your Steel, spot weld as needed and assemble the pieces and securing the plates with-rivets. A Jigsaw Puzzle if you will.

Yes, I'm suggesting a "shell" might be overlayed onto the hull and installed around the turret. It would be easy to produce, assemble, mount and shape.

There were stories to indicate a similar process also occurred with the T-14 ARMATA to get it out there for propaganda purposes both at home and abroad. I feel to a degree that this "might" be the case with the M2020/2024.

This is just one possibility running around inside my head.

I had and Marcello I believe used the same website that focused solely on N. Korea. I need to review those posts for the website and refresh my memory on what was discussed at that time as I feel it'll lend clarity to what we are discussing currently.

But I can't assume that there's nothing here either. The above is my worst case would these tanks be a possible game changer. Yes, but for N. Korea mostly but not the world.

It's getting late and in 11 hours I'll be knocking out the first of my 7.5 miles.

Those leads I seek are in those posts and so is that website if still up.

Regards,
Pat


ALRIGHT PAGES 11-15 THIS THREAD SOME OF MY WORST CASE ABOVE DISCUSSED IN THOSE PAGES FOR A COUPLE OF TANKS TO INCLUDE MARCELLO AMONG OTHER ITEMS. KPA JOURNAL WAS THE SITE LAST ARTICLE RELEASE DEC 2013. Signed up for newsletter still active so took a shot however site is unsecure so be CAREFUL however I have very robust anti-virus software so I got in and out fast. We'll see if I get a response

Done playing-gotta pay the bills later.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Alright got just a little bit of time here as I really would like to enjoy the rest of this night before going back to work Tue.

1. I'm able to safely get to the KPA Journal site without issues. The links are still good to the most recent tanks N. Korea was operating with full analysis at the time of each that we were trying to decode ourselves between Don, Marcello and myself at the time.

2. Time to meet the man:
https://www.csis.org/people/joseph-s-bermudez-jr
His resume is most impressive and it always "bugged" why his name sounded familiar. After reading the above I found out why it was his writing for JANEs in particular IHS Markit (formerly the Jane's Information Group) on material unrelated to this topic or Thread. There are few that can rival his current employer in the world as well.

3. KPA Journal seems to be "live" but not updated since Dec. 2013 for his last publication. He did respond at the time to a couple of inquiries from me regarding the tanks in question at the time which as some here know is not something I haven't done in the past with some success in the past except for France. I see there's an email on the site maybe I'll take a shot.

4. From this Thread again, Pages 11-14 are in play. In particular POST 114 PG. 12. I've started to read again refs 2-4 of that post as it relates to the tanks.

5. So far since my post from a couple of days ago I'm convinced there is definitely some metal work been done to the M2020/2024 tanks.
I'm also taking a hard look at the masts of the tank in particular a GPS and Weather masts that are critical part of any modern FCS.

I have time to figure this out. Just as I feel the T-14 ARMATA is more a "Paper Tiger" (Not necessarily saying it's a bad tank but, I don't think it's much better or as good as the T-90M 2023.) I feel the M2020/2024 tanks won't be much better in fact I feel they'll be worse.

Regards,
Pat


The "opus" could be coming.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

British Intelligence is declaring that the T-14 ARMATA has officially entered service with the Russian Army this month.

They will likely be attached to the 1st Guards Tank Army that's responsible for the security of the Moscow Region.

They will not be deployed or used in the current and ongoing war in the Ukraine from the above and Russian MOD.

This is to avoid capture and or destruction as it would involve national embarrassment. Also cited are its expense to build and maintain. Further the logistical support for the ARMATA is not yet set in place.

The other reason is the reported low reliability of the tank overall as even reported by the Russian MOD and posted in this thread and elsewhere.

I fully understand now that we have a firm date the fixes will be made for the START date, however we also already know for all practical purposes the armor is NOT as good as thought and neither is the MG.

The issue stems from the reported facts that the T-90M employed the T-14 armor elements on the sides and turret and was equipped with the same MG. A small number are rusty hulks in the Ukrainian countryside and about 5 were captured and safely out of the country to be reverse engineered. Just like has been reported Russia is doing with the abandoned BRADLEY they showcased in MOSCOW.

We just need to fine tune it at some point.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...o_service.html

Regards,
Pat