Exploit question

[Kuritza]

Originally Posted by Baalz

My point is that the Dominions culture is quite different, and much more open to people playing stuff because it's fun or interesting rather than because it's the universally accepted "optimal" strategy. I don't want to get into a discussion about whether specifically my suggestions on strategies are good, but rather to point out that your position seems to be "that wouldn't work, that's not how most people would/should approach this problem and therefore you're a fool for not doing that." I think you could have a lot more fun playing the game with the attitude of "I'm gonna go with the monkeys and see what kind of damage I can do". [/too much holiday cheer]

Yes it is different. You can notice how I joined this forum almost three years ago, but wasnt making such flamefests until now - because this forum is different.
And I never, ever said I only want to see 'optimal' strategies in Dominions. Hell, in all my games I was trying some fun crap - and it worked quite well. I only tried all-out clam-monkeys in Lapis after, like, three attempts to play Bandar Log differently. When I say that your tricks wont work, I mean that you wont win a game by relying on such things as your main and only strategy. But God forbid me to say anything bad to somebody who joins a game to try a markata-campaign for fun. I am playing a blood-clam-lamias-tarts LA Man now; do you think I dont like weird strategies?! Think again.
[Cough... Before anyone asks, yes I know these things are actually mainstream, but afaik not for LA Man. Cough.]

What I find a really, REALLY bad behaviour is deliberately disrupting game balance just because you see that you cant win anymore. Some player finds himself in a bad position, sees that nation X is on a winning spree and attacking it would be a suicide, and starts thwarting everyone who tried to fight that nation X.
For him, its reasonable because this way he can have some fun. But what about these he backstabs? They have invested lots of time in this game, half a year maybe; they were fighting a stronger foe - and they had a chance to win. SO much excitement. And then this dude backstabs them and ruins all - you cant both fight a winning nation AND that dude.
Wasted.
Nice? I think not.
I believe Archeolept was also complaining about these who join a game to help their friends win; like, casting Crumble on their own capitol with Victory Point to let that golem storm it faster.
I'd also include turtling/burning earth thing, but some might disagree.

I've seen such things again and again here, and eventually got tired of them. Thats why I mentioned closed DOTA leagues in the first place.
By the way, you have started that 'Good players pledge' thread, so you must have thought about such things yourself.

[Sombre]

And so the topic moves to ganging and kingmaking. Eventually it will cover all eventualities and the entire forum can b closed.

[Kuritza]

Nah ganging is absolutely fine most of the time, dont twist my words. Except when it becomes kingmaking.

[vfb]

I think this thread needs a poll. I'm ordering 'B': Scorched lands, 3 Ganks, and a stab in the back with an exploit, to go.

[Zeldor]

I don't think that LA MAn is a weak nation, it's somewhere in the middle of the pack. Great troops, good combat mages and nice paths on them. Good forging options. You have it not so hard to fill their holes with a pretender. Ignoring their strengths and focusing on other things does not seem wise, of course diversification is required. I offered you and Marignon to swap nations for my Ermor many turns ago in Setsumi and none of you were interested Each one of you was stronger than me at that point and you wasted your chance.

Anyway, I really get a feeling that you are just continuing your speeches from Setsumi thread [everyone should read it, that topic is awesome :P]. You should really work on diplomacy, both in-game and on forums. You are doing everything to convince even more people to play gemgenless CBM and alienating yourself, by using not-so-true arguments. You are losing Setsumi because you could not do diplomacy and insulted many people that could have helped you against me otherwise. You provoked that treacherous backstab by insulting that player. You spent all mid-game trying to build your interesting strategies instead of building anti-Ermor alliance or trying to get a border with me at least. You waited for Marignon to do the job. If he had won, it'd be the same thing, but just about why no one wants to help to stop him. And I will remind you one thing - Ermor can clam too, it's not banned for them, really.

[Kuritza]

I think you are simply lying, Zeldor.

First off, I didnt call LA Man weak, it was Micah and others. I also agree that its an average nations with its strengths. I absolutely love my troops, my mages and my scales, and its not like I sacrificed them to get all other stuff. LA Man is great.

Second, please point me - where did you offer swap nations?.. Perhaps I missed it.

Third, no we werent stronger each. You were dominating, its quite clear.
Fourth, I tried forging an alliance. Some said they just dont believe that Ermor is so strong, some said they are all for it and didnt do anything. Like SciencePro, for example. He was shouting OK!!! Lets gang Ermor now! And... he didnt do it.

Fifth, I started insulting him only AFTER he attacked me. If you dont remember the sequence, I'll remind you: after yet another outbreak of 'Ok, lets finish this game and declare Zeldor a winner' just as I was getting excited about our war that finally started, I wrote that the game is not over yet and we still have a good chance if Rlyeh and Utgard join me and Abyssia, even if they didnt help Marignon. Rlyeh even backstabbed Marignon, which was true.
Right after that Rlyeh said he will attack me instead, and I started calling him an idiot. This is not the first time I have this very situation; last time it was a no-diplo game. Ermor dominates the whole map, attacking people one by one, Rlyeh thwarts these who fight Ermor. Later he told us that he didnt understand how to play Rlyeh and knew he cant possibly fight Ermor (who can, in turn, easily go underwater), so he just ganged these who struggle. Great idea huh.

Six - I am not using not-so-true arguments. If you think I am, ok, thats your point of view and you are entitled to it. But I dont lie intentionally; perhaps I make mistakes but thats it.

Seven - even in Setsumi tread people stated WHY they were not going to attack Ermor despite my and Marignon's pleas. You didnt have to try hard convincing them not to gang on you, the winner: they were affraid they wont gain anything by attacking you, stuck in your neverending hordes. Thats one of Ermor's strength indeed, nobody wants to fight it.

Eight. I spent my mid-game fighting first Pangaea, then Abyssia, then Caelum - trying to get to you. I just couldnt attack you until recently (though I offered some Golem support to Caelum and Utgard in case they attack you). Dont say if you dont know. I already stated that I always try to fight somebody, otherwise I feel like I stale.

Nine. I didnt wait for Marignon to do the job, stop the BS please. I didnt have my scouts there, so I couldnt cloud-trapeze, and from my previous experience I know that Ossa rarely responds to PMs so its kinda hard to cooperate with him.

Ten. Yes I know that you clam. What next? I can compare your Ermor and WL's. Were you WL, I'd give up immediately, he is really good. But against you, I can struggle for a while. I think I will give up when Lapis ends - to stop bothering you guys on these forums and stop playing this game faster. Until then, please forgive me if I linger here a bit.

Eleven. I dont care if I alienate myself here. I am fed up and going to leave. Fed up by clueless people who ruin games, fed up by your mix of 'I am so weak' lies and 'I am undefeatable' brags, by banning of gemgens etc.



... ok, you know what? Grats, you've got on my nerves. If you REALLY want to win more than you want to play, post in the topic AGAIN that you want to be declared a winner. I wont object. Others lost hope long ago, so it will be over.

[Sombre]

Keep the Setsumi BS in the Setsumi thread. Oh wait I'm 17 pages too late.

[Warhammer]

Since this is quite the popular topic, how about having two downloads of the CBM mods? One without gemgen, and one with for those idiots like me who can't figure out how to enable gemgenning in two minutes.

Now I am not as experienced as many players out there, I would imagine that gemgenning would not be that big of a deal on a smaller map with fewer players, am I wrong in assuming this?

[KissBlade]

I think that's a reasonable request to be made in the CBM thread =) (Not this one hehe)

[Twan]

Legendary thread. It summoned me from the nether plane.

I think Bandar Log should be allowed to make clams and copy Bogus orders, or it should be considered to allow retreating monkey mages to use the old unerfed globals ! (this or give them a King Kong summon)

It's time to take appropriate measures to fix the markata PD.