Mod: Epic Heroes Mod -Version 1.5 Released

[Xietor]

no, that is actually a caelum scarab sprite that i presently use for Ermor's misshapen Angel. If you load epic heroes and select ermor, you will see that sprite.

What I actually wanted was a size 4 undead angel, sort of like the sprite i sent you, but blacker and undead looking if that makes any sense.

[Sombre]

...?

Unit # 626 - fallen angel is size4. It isn't for Caelum. It looks like the angel you sent me, only black and with a burning green sword.

Try adding #addrecunit "fallen angel" to a nation and you'll see it.

[Xietor]

You are 100 percent correct on all accounts. I had the current version 1.4 mod set as my preferences, rather than the upcoming 1.5, so I was seeing the wrong sprite.

Out of curiosity, what nation uses the Fallen Angel? My original idea may once again be shot(:

[Xietor]

Epic Heroes 1.5 will have changes made with the benefit of much play testing in sp games, plus a big mp game involving 12 of the heroes. Changes that are planned thus far:


Pythium: Fallen Angel size increased from 2 to 4.

Shinuyama:

I feel my knowledge of Shinuyama has increased a ton since I first made the Ancient Master. For mp purposes, I find Shinuyama's situation similar to Machaka, with a vulnerability to a dominion 10 wyrm bum rush, or aggressive expansion from races with low resource highly blessed troops. To alleviate this disparity:

Ancient Master is getting a hp boost from 18 to 27,
100 percent shock resistance, whirling fists are getting improved(defensive), Amphibian(to reflect a monk's total body control and ability to hold breath a very long time. In Dungeons and Dragons they were immune to asphyxiation, immune to mind control spells, and took 1/2 damage from spells. Ancient Master will be losing his fear ability. With the boosts and summon, there is no justification for the fear/awe combo.

Ancient Master is not getting any resistance to fire or cold, but he is getting shock res. Shock resist, high mr, and increase in hps from 18 to 27 should prevent him from getting 1 shotted by a level 3 priest casting smite-which is what happens currently.

In fact the Ancient Master is getting an insanely high MR of 40, yes 40, to reflect that he is immune to mind control spells. Unfortunately there is no way to mod immunity from mind control, so i will achieve the same affect with the off the chart mr. This will also have the intended effect of making him immune to mind hunts.

He only has 27 hps, so he is still vulnerable to numerous methods of death, but he will not be subjected to smite, mind hunt, enslave mind, charm, or lightning based attacks.

Gift from heaven, incinerate, frozen heart, trample, wind ride, and skelly spam are all obvious ways to kill him.

The makemonster ability of a Shishi, though only at a rate of 1 per turn, gives shin some necessary tough units early on that can face a hydra, vans etc. Though they fare poorly in tests against size 6 tramplers.

It is hard to believe Shin has no unit that has a shield(:, no cavalry, no sacred units, and national summons that are really nothing special until conj 8. Their best mage has severe old age.

They do get a tough longbow unit, but at 38 resources a pop, you cannot amass enough of them early to fight off an early blitz.

Kappas get fatigued too fast, and have no shield. Adding a shield and give them a normal fatigue, and you may have something. Make them capital only.

Shin. pd post 20 is nice, and that is a strong point. Good research is another strength. But those strengths do not help early.

So shin. is getting a boost to its epic hero, and Shishi, though few in number, will give pause to all but elephant and mammoth races.

Maragon:

One of the 4 races I unfairly penalized(vanheim, pythium and ermor are the other 3) with less than epic heroes because i felt they were too tough already in mp. This issue was discussed, and I have since been convinced I erred in not giving every race a truly Epic Hero. It is not the goal of this mod to balance the races through epic heroes. Vanheim and Pythium were boosted in 1.4 as those races were to be used in the Epic Hero MP game.

Marignon's Tithe Collector is becoming an Epic Hero. His priestly skills were reinstated, he was given 2 air magic, armor, and some extra hps. He can now melee a bit. Since he received major boosts in melee ability his awe was removed.

A tithe collector is feared, not held in awe. And he would have been overpowered with his melee boosts, priest boosts, 2a boost, if he had the double whammy of awe and fear.

Here is 1.5 version of the Tithe Collector:





Ulm: Black Duke of Ulm's makemonster ability of Black Order Soldiers reduced to 2 per turn.

Ermor will receive an entirely new Epic hero., the Angel of Death, whose screenshot is 2 posts below.


Abysia Black Phoenix fire resistance increased to 200 percent. Some items make a unit susceptible to fire, and the thought of a Black Pheonix taking damage from fire is an alien concept, even with barkskin.

Black Phoenix prot increased from 3 to 8, and he was given a fireshield.

Atlantis- Early expansion and lack of ranged units on land plague Atlantis, thus a makemonster ability of 2 silver orangs was added. They are sacred, immune to cold, and are ok in water. More of a boon is they have a cold based ranged attack on land.

Atlantis leadership skills are boosted, and he loses his slow domsummon of a ghost-that is replaced with a silver orang.

Atlantis' Epic Hero now attracts skeletons in great numbers.

The Silver Orang is pictured here:





Very good feedback from the Epic Heroes MP game:


Rlyeh's epic hero

Loses fear,life drain, entanglement. As a slight positive to offset the losses, he is no longer susceptible to fire, and his stealth was increased from 25 to 35.


Machaka: The fear of the immortal assassin is overpowered. Instead of having to kill bodyguards, he injures 1 and the rest run. This ability was inadvertently added when i had to use the copystat command to add his dark vision.

Vanheim: the little gnome is being accused of being a sc

. While I may not agree that an 8 hp epic hero makes a good sc, I did remove the aoe1 effect from the Tinker's Hammer. It does still have the 2ndary effect of small area fire damage. For crying out loud, he has 8 hps! Kill him already.

Caelum: The Sacred Yeti gets a retooled descr and a body slot!



Ermor's Epic Hero in 1.5(not coming soon):

[Xietor]

I am bumping the thread, to answer questions about the changes in 1.5. The changes are listed in the above post. 1.5 will not be released until the completion of the epic heroes mp game.

[Horst F. JENS]

just lost the epic heroes test game, playing Man. I think that my hero (the guy who can summon axe-throwers) was not overpowered. I let him summon axe-throwers all the time, but it made no big impact against human players. The axe-throwers were fine against indys.

[Nikolai]

I think that this mod going into 'unreal' territory. This's pointless. Ancient master can wipe the floor with a NATION, you don't get it? Two level 0 rings, garanteed at turn 5, ancient master is immune to most everything, including many other Epic heroes. I need Gift of Heaven to kill him!? Other 'methods' you suggest are a joke - are worthless at construction 4, and little effective even before that.

Why don't you name mod Epic Heroes: Arena, and attach a map with one center and 17 capitals around?

[Xietor]

There is an actual game ongoing to test the balance of the various heroes. To my knowledge, none has had much of an impact.

The Ancient Master in 1.4, the mod's present version, can be killed by 2 smites.

Really the one who has had the biggest impact is Ryleh Epic Hero who can make laying siege under water a nightmare by assassinating underwater commanders. But with star child's magic duel and mind hunt combo, it is already painful to siege Rlyeh's capital.

But Rlyeh Epic Hero is being toned down a bit in the next version.

The game is now in the late stages and angels and tartarian gates rule the world, not epic heroes.

Nikolai-you do make a good point about the Ancient Master in 1.5. And he will likely not get the shock resist. He will be immune to spells that check mr though, such as mind hunt.
Monks are supposed to be immune to mind control spells. thematic. And at 27 hps, he will be easy enough to kill. Much easier than a 310 hp tartarian gate!

Rigor Mortis can kill all Epic Heroes that are not undead-and it is easy for most nations to cast. Drain life is not resistible. Life for a life.

At 27 hps an Epic Hero should not be able to kill a Nation, though, if the player has a good understanding of the game mechanics.

[Xietor]

I will respond to a pm.

Yes the Epic Heroes Mod does have a fundamental change on the game in some respects. It does allow for sleeping pretenders for races who otherwise would never dare take a sleeping or imprisoned pretender.

It does allow some races that are weak out of the gate a fighting chance to survive until mid game. But I do not view that as a bad thing.

So yes, it adds new options in strategy and gameplay for existing races.

[Xietor]

Epic Heroes Mod just finished a 12 person mp game.

Some tweaking will be done to the Epic Heroes Mod, and then there will be a Epic Heroes Mod II mp game for a final Heroes test before the final mod version is released.

Anyone that has any thoughts on the relative power of the Heroes, especially players in the game, this is your chance to have some input.