War.... (Historical: 9/11 discussion thread)

[Askan Nightbringer]

quote:

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Originally posted by Quikngruvn:


I feel for the populace of Afghanistan. Because of the actions of a (relatively) few, they will more than likely suffer a great deal. Iraq also.

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Ugh.
Isn't that what is happening now in the US?
An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth is just going to leave the world with alot of blind, hungry people.

I don't want my country to get dragged into a war (and my pathetic excuse of a leader will be there lapping at George W's feet). I want the US to lead by example. To act with good sense and not get alot of innocent people killed because alot of innocent people were killed.

Is that too much to ask?

Askan

[dogscoff]

EDIT. - Unnecessary post all but removed.

*Dogscoff wanders off in search of somewhere to sleep.

[This message has been edited by dogscoff (edited 14 September 2001).]

[Kimball]

quote:

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Originally posted by Puke:
isnt it the same tune as "god save the queen?"

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I thought that was God Bless America. However as I speak 6:00 am CDT, they are singing our National Anthem in England at St. Paul's Cathedral (I think, it is the same place where Diana's funeral was). So, you may be right, Puke, but watch CSPAN2 later today.

[Mephisto]

Sorry, dogscoff, I didn't know that you already where quoting/replaying to me otherwise I would not have deleted my mail.
Right after my post I saw a comment that this comment was aired 25 years ago and as I didn't wanted to piss people off I did delete my post.

[tesco samoa]

HEy dogscoff rememeber that the speach was written in 1973 by Gordon Sinclair ( Canadian ).

I think that is is not the time to be taking the piss at who built what but take the post on how it was. Rich04 posted this speach so others could seek comfort in it's words.
Nothing more nothing less.

Lets leave it at that.

P.S. I am not pissed off, but felt compelled to write this.

Take care dogscoff.

Tesco

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[tesco samoa]

What will happen to Echelon now? Intelligence based solely on Technology is not enough. I can see encryption being Banned ( unless their is a back door )



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[Exculcator]

Here's to remind that we really DO sympathise.

http://coldleaf.org/thankyou.htm

[tesco samoa]

"Twice in my lifetime the long arm of destiny has reached across the oceans and involved the entire life and manhood of the United States in a deadly struggle.

There was no use in saying "We don't want it; we won’t have it; our forebears left Europe to avoid these quarrels; we have founded a new world which has no contact with the old. "There was no use in that. The long arm reaches out remorselessly, and every one's existence, environment, and outlook undergo a swift and irresistible change. What is the explanation, Mr. President, of these strange facts, and what are the deep laws to which they respond? I will offer you one explanation - there are others, but one will suffice.

The price of greatness is responsibility. If the people of the United States had continued in a mediocre station, struggling with the wilderness, absorbed in their own affairs, and a factor of no consequence in the movement of the world, they might have remained forgotten and undisturbed beyond their protecting oceans: but one cannot rise to be in many ways the leading community in the civilised world without being involved in its problems, without being convulsed by its agonies and inspired by its causes.

If this has been proved in the past, as it has been, it will become indisputable in the future. The people of the United States cannot escape world responsibility. Although we live in a period so tumultuous that little can be predicted, we may be quite sure that this process will be intensified with every forward step the United States make in wealth and in power. Not only are the responsibilities of this great Republic growing, but the world over which they range is itself contracting in relation to our powers of locomotion at a positively alarming rate.

We have learned to fly. What prodigious changes are involved in that new accomplishment! Man has parted company with his trusty friend the horse and has sailed into the azure with the eagles, eagles being represented by the infernal (loud laughter) - I mean internal -combustion engine. Where, then, are those broad oceans, those vast staring deserts? They are shrinking beneath our very eyes. Even elderly Parliamentarians like myself are forced to acquire a high degree of mobility.

But to the youth of America, as to the youth of all the Britains, I say "You cannot stop." There is no halting-place at this point. We have now reached a stage in the journey where there can be no pause. We must go on. It must be world anarchy or world order."

Winston Churchill.



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[Exculcator]

History shall be kind to me
for I intend to write it.


Winston Churchill.

[Baron Munchausen]

quote:

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Originally posted by Puke:
well, the UN likes to try, and it looks like NATO is willing to help, but i get your point. i meant to suggenst that one guy is a vigilantie, a group or community used to be called a lynch mob. when they had a sherrif at the head, instead of just a drunk farmer, they got to be called a 'possie.' Maybe they will get to be called a task force or something, when its governments getting together, but i think the concept is basically the same.

again, not that im against it. I think a war on terrorism would be great, as long as it does not go the way of ronnie ray-gun's war on terrorism. i just find the parallel interesting.

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Well, if I can ever punch through the knee-jerk assumptions that any "action" has to be military retribution we might discuss a "New World Order" that really isolates nations that harbor terrorists and shares information in a coordinated way that gets the terrorists caught. I see that some of the Europeans, like Askan and Andre Lescano, understand the real problem with macho revenge actions. Dropping millions of tons of bombs on Afghanistan and other remote havens for terrorists will only kill 5 or 10 percent of the terrorists, but will definitely radicalize a new generation of suicide bombers. What we need is a real international system that can detect the preparations that go into something as large as the WTC attack. Even in the spotty news we're getting now you can see that there was a lot of preparation that would have given warning if someone was paying attention.