Bug Bug Thread: Discussion - Page 184

chrispedersen · #**1831** April 24th, 2008, 11:45 PM

Many of us don't *like* SC's. So theres a game balance question between SC's and nonSC's.

One of the ways to defeat an SC is just have so much chaff that he CANT kill it all in 50 turns.

Leave as is.

vfb · #**1832** April 24th, 2008, 11:55 PM

I've made a new thread where we can discuss our ideas about this without cluttering the bug reporting thread:

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...&Number=600558

chrispedersen · #**1833** April 25th, 2008, 12:03 AM

Perhaps I'm not understanding things:

According to the ONI uni descriptions (e.g.,Kuro-Oni)

"Oni are almost immortal. If their body is slain, their spirit will survive.....if the spirit is not slain or banished as well, it will reform a new body over time."

Now, according to the unit db, kuro oni - and others use the 1rstshape / 2ndshape commands. Whats the big deal?

Well, according to manual, changing upon death should be handled by the secondtmpshape command.

The issue as I see it - is that the Oni currently change upon any significant damage, rather than upon death. So, not only does this vary with the unit as described it has game implications, nameley:

1. Oni units may change from a missile troop to a non missile troop.
2. Effective strength decreases. Instead of being able to absorb one hit, damage irrelevent and then revert to a second shape, the unit reverts somewhere around 50%. This means a 4-12 effective hit point difference.

Or am I completely misunderstanding something?

Edi · #**1834** April 25th, 2008, 02:43 AM

Chris, regarding the priest issue that you reported, it was covered earlier, but to recap and clarify:

Quote:

chrispedersen said:

Quote:

Edi said:

Quote:

chrispedersen said:
I submitted files about a priest attacking a province without PD and with X X Retreat orders.

When X where unactionable orders, the priest would retreat even from a province with routing undead, where the enemy routed first.

Has this made it to the bug list?

Chris, that's not a bug, that's WAD. If units have unactionable orders, they do something else (e.g. a mage scripted to cast something that doesn't have enough range to reach enemy, he casts something else instead). If there is nothing else they can do (essentially can't shoot or can't cast a spell), they move on to the next order in the script, check if it's actionable etc. If the oreder is retreat, it's triggered. If retreat orders are not specified in the script, the default order is attack if nothing else can be done.

Edi,

Then why have me send in turn files, if its WAD?
Also, its still peculiar.

Say for example the order was

Banish, Banish, Retreat.
But there are no units within Banish range.

If you have mages scripted for fireball, fireball, retreat they will cast SOME spell (usually like fireshield) twice -it won't just skip forward to the retreat.

But the priest immediately retreats first turn. I believe this is a defect of AI, and I reproduced it like
5 times.

It is not a bug, as you suggest. The reason why priests rout much more easily from an unactionable script items is because they do not have alternatives they can use unlike most other mages. Take your example of a fire mage who's out of range of a fireball and thus can't cast it. Since the order is <cast fireball> and it can't be done, the AI reads it as <cast something else that is usable, if possible>. So the mage is likely to cast fire shield, or fire resistance, or fire fend or phoenix power or any number of other fire spells that could either buff the mage, buff troops or hurt the enemy.

A priest has very few options in this regard. Sermon of courage is one, holy avenger another, but a Lv 1 priest can't do that or anything else useful, so when out of range he skips cast orders until he hits retreat and then does that because it is actionable. If you want the priest to stay on the field for the full five turns regardless of actionable orders or not, the proper script would be <blessing><hold or cast><hold or cast><hold or cast><hold or cast><retreat>.

So everything is working exactly as it should. As long as a caster can cast something that actually does something useful, they will, and only then will skip to next order. If retreat orders are involved and absolutely must not be executed before specified, <hold or cast> is your only option.

The reason why turn files should be sent with unusual bugs is that they can be analyzed if necessary. Often things can be puzzled out without them, such as now, but I simply do not have the resources to immediately jump on everything. It is also important to take into account how things work in Dominions, because the mechanics can sometimes cause behavior that looks like a bug if you are not familiar with it. The manual does a good job of describing most mechanics and observation of the game in action should provide a lot of additional information if one pays attention. This was one such example.

Endoperez · #**1835** April 25th, 2008, 03:13 AM

Quote:

vfb said:
The 75% HP loss auto-route does not take into account the full HP of additional forms. Like Cor2 above, I had a mage flee an assassination attempt because the mage was carrying a bottle of living water, and the elemental's first form dropped to 7HP. Looks pretty nonsensical when you watch the battle.

Personally, I'd like to see this re-handled. Little memory would have to be reserved for "total hp including shapechanges" stat, but it would only have to be calculated once for each monster type, and that'd be automatic. The amount of hp would be shown when you viewed extra info about hp; alternatively, it could be shown instead of the hp left for the current form. It would work fine for hydras or elementals, but not so well for e.g. Machakan sorceresses whose spider-form shouldn't be seen, or for units whose second form disappears after battle.

chrispedersen · #**1836** April 25th, 2008, 05:09 AM

#magicskill 8 1
#custommagic 13312 100 will work

#custommagic 46080 100 won't and will make a unit old?

Whats up? AKA., Random priest seems not to work.

Kristoffer O · #**1837** April 25th, 2008, 12:56 PM

> Whats up? AKA., Random priest seems not to work.

It is not possible in the code I recently discovered, so I would would be surprised if it was possible in modding. THere are however instances where I can do less in the code then you can in modding so I'm not sure here.

chrispedersen · #**1838** April 25th, 2008, 10:27 PM

Well, the manual says you can... #custommagic
Woohoo Bug! Do I win a donut?

chrispedersen · #**1839** April 25th, 2008, 10:34 PM

Modding spells is much less than ideal in many circumstances. The AI has no knowledge of the spell and therefore will not weight nor cast it.

Similiarly, it is a frustrating feature that carefully scripted orders go awry as the AI makes its own weighting.

It would be interesting if there were a modding method, and an ingame option table, where one could creating weighting tables.

For the ingame option - it would perhaps only allow you to create a table of maybe 5 entries. And you could add up to 100 weighting for up to 5 spells. Or deprecate 5 spells by a like amount.

This weighting would be added to the AI determined weighting value. Since the same table would be used in all random events, battles, assassinations etc it still prevents micromanaging while allowing players to hopefully have some better control, especially on really important battles.

vfb · #**1840** April 26th, 2008, 04:45 AM

I managed to Enslave Mind my opponent's prophet. Now I've got it as a normal unit, but ... it's still a Prophet!

It's a unit, not a commander. Its title is "Prophet". But it's blessed (outside combat), with my bless, and has the Prophet icon.

I'll GOR it in a couple months and see if it's still an H3 priest. I wonder if my opponent will be able to make a new prophet in 6 months, or if he'll have to wait until 6 months after the one I stole dies.