I suck with Pythium ... please help!

[Huzurdaddi]

Or you can not make heavy use of principes.

Waaa? But they are excellent for the cost. I don't know why people cry about how much they cost it's not like they cost resources like HI. They cost 19 resources. That's 33% less than most HI. They are *CHEAP* for what they do.

A good early-mid strategy is to recruit indy archers and go for Wind Guide. Principes are great basic infantry, especially with the standards to boost morale. Backed up by astral magic and wind-guided archers, it's a good combo.

I don't think that Pythium needs help in the early game. The principie takes care of the early game. You can even add in Therug Acolytes to make them *very* good against independents or any nation unlucky to be placed next to you.

The problem happens later, at least for me. Around turn 35-45 standard units become much less powerful compared to what they are facing. And I am having a problem fielding an army to match the other side. The problem, I think, boils down to the lack of death, blood or high air paths. The 1st two of these two schools have very powerful summons in the end game and air has very powerful battle magics. While Pythium has air magic it is only level 2, and it is on a very expensive unit. I understand that a nation can not have it all. But having one of these three things seems to be the ticket in the end game.

Hence in my current game I am doing anything and everything I can to cultivate both death and blood. It's slow going. It's tough, but it's the only option that I see.

Oh and I am going to make a good number of harbringers to counter other people's blood and death.

[ July 05, 2004, 05:28: Message edited by: Huzurdaddi ]

[Balmoth]

This idea assumes you have a pretender with S4, D1 and/or A5.

An idea for the Pythium mid-game could be to aim for conjuration 6 and cast Ether gate. Expensive gemwise, but yields 15 hard to kill Ether Warriors. and a DDSSSS commander that besides being a good combat mage is definately SC material.

After this go for Conjuration 7 and put the air gems to good use in summoning the Queens of elemental air. These are fine SCs in my experience. But it might be a race to get these first. You might need to convert some gems to get them.

These should help you through the mid game

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Huzurdaddi:
The 1st two of these two schools have very powerful summons in the end game and air has very powerful battle magics. While Pythium has air magic it is only level 2, and it is on a very expensive unit.

Say it with me here: COMMUNION.

Yes, Air has very powerful battle magics, some of which require a fair level of skill to cast. Yes, the Pythiumians don't have as high an innate level of air proficiency as, say, Caelum or Vanheim. However, Pythium is ALL about the communion. Reaching any reasonably useful level of magic for all but the most ludicrously pathy spells is trivial for an Arch Theurg with sufficient communicants. The randoms, combined with the communioning, will let you use any spell in the game.

As for Air, you don't even have to worry about accidentally electrocuting your communicants: If the master casts Resist Lightning, all commslaves will be protected as well. Communion is fun.

This, of course, does not address the fact that your ritual-casting and forging ability is not that strong, but the right picks in pretender magics can easily circumvent this issue.

[Taqwus]

Hm, those Ether Lords might be nasty nether-dart machines when Communioned. Pricey for that 'tho; Lamia Queens might be more cost-efficient if you can get a Nature supply and caster.

[Tuna-Fish]

Also, you keep asking for summons. Personally, I dont think pythium is a summon-nation, but instead they should base on a more conventional army with great battlefield magic. Just give those principes of yours mistform, luck, mass protection, whatever, and they become a force that even the most powerful SC's take frigging decades to kill. Then use them to shield your mages that can cast some real nasty damage spells with the help of communion. Even paralyse is very very nasty when cast by a mage that has effective astral of 8, and a spell focus...

I personally like a pythium strategy that has an e-10 cyclops as a pretender. He gives your mages, and most importantly, communicants, great reinvigoration, and also can cast the spell "enliven statues" with frightful efficiency when you slap on earth boots. Statues are very good sc-fodder, and when boosted by just a little they become very very hard to kill. Also, the cyclops can cast things like army of lead, blade wind with gazillion blades, and earthquake.
Just give him a load of gems and a staff of storms (to protect him), and perhaps some armour, and attack enemy army, cast earthquake twice, and flee: instant army-shredder.

Also, when you have army of lead up, earthquake is not really very harmful for you.

[godofdun]

I haven't heard much discussion about the hydras/hatchlings, is there a way to make them useful? With their poison cloud and no real easy way to give ur troops poison resistence they seem to be more harm than help. And what about the gladiators? Has anyone found a way to make them usefull at all?

[Arryn]

godofdun said:
I haven't heard much discussion about the hydras/hatchlings, is there a way to make them useful? With their poison cloud and no real easy way to give ur troops poison resistence they seem to be more harm than help.

Mass Flight (Enchant-7 Air-4), send them into the enemy rear to wreak havoc. Or put them in your front center with missile troops along your flanks (well out of the path of any rout) and charge them into the enemy front supported by your missileers.

Then there's Serpent's Blessing (Enchant-7 Nature-4) which protects your whole army versus (natural) poison. (I haven't cast this spell myself, so I'm not sure, but it should protect against the hydra poison.)

[godofdun]

Arryn said:
quote]Mass Flight (Enchant-7 Air-4), send them into the enemy rear to wreak havoc. Or put them in your front center with missile troops along your flanks (well out of the path of any rout) and charge them into the enemy front supported by your missileers.

Then there's Serpent's Blessing (Enchant-7 Nature-4) which protects your whole army versus (natural) poison. (I haven't cast this spell myself, so I'm not sure, but it should protect against the hydra poison.)

Hmmm, yeah, thatd work, just seems very cost prohibitive compared to the mass principe idea, you can get 16 of those guys for the same price (350), even though itl take more turns. Would the hatchlings be better since they are better priced, even though they don't have lesser fear?

[Arryn]

Check out this thread: On using poison cloud units...

and this one: On Pythium and Hydras

This forum's SEARCH function is quite handy ...

[archaeolept]

I always go principe, though some prefer the hastati for the gold savings. hatchlings are quite close to useless; the full grown, except in serpent cult, rarely of use. good against miasma c'tis.

the gladiators are, in theory, a good troop for scratch Last minute defense, say of an isolated mage communion. or as the lead troops in a battle you expect to take very heavy losses in. In practice, I almost never buy any. I once bought some (in a very early game) on the theory that they were cheap patrollers, until they caught a scout... ;p