The Art of Thuggery

[Revolution]

Bane lords are undead and have no magic...so they don't get fatigued from fighting and no spell casting means that quickness is always a nice choice...frost brand, vine shield or eye shield and boots of quickness or jade armor. pendant of luck and amulet of anti magic are always nice choices. They get solid prot from their basic armor/helmet; if you have gems to burn you can always upgrade those to get some more defense or elemental resistance depending on what you're fighting. Beware enemy death mages.

[JimMorrison]

Originally Posted by Lingchih

Bane lords are not thugs. I would never give one an expensive eye shield. Only cheap equipment. They are only good for specific homeland duties, such as killing wolves if you have the Soulstone.

Oh, and I like the eye shield if your thug is tough (50 hp), and has regen.

I think you're the first person to ever refute that the Bane Lord is the quintessential thug. With 42HP, they rival some of the physically weaker SCs, like Air Queens.

Bane Lords are very versatile, only limited by their inability to cast any self buffs, but as stated Revolution, in a sense their lack of magic is a bonus - just bring a buffer with them.

[Jazzepi]

Generally my outfit for banelords has been this.

Frostbrand
Eye shield
Horror Helm (or nothing, I think the base helm is the same protection)
(I can't remember what kind of armor, I think I just don't give them any since the base armor is okay)
Boots of Quickness
Amulet of Luck
Barkskin Amulet

Reading Baalz's guide makes me think like I'm spending too much on the thugs.

Also, with these setup thugs I generally have a hard time soloing PD of 25+ which is fairly disappointing

What are the thoughts on eye-shield versus vine shield? I've always thought eye was a better choice because it has better protection, but looking now it's only a 3 point difference, and I think shield protection only matters when you actually block a hit with the shield?

Jazzepi

[llamabeast]

I reckon eye shield is better against elites (as it eventually cripples them), but vine shield against chaff, as almost all of them will instantly get tied up so you don't get hit very much. This is just a largely-untested opinion though.

[licker]

Pair your thugs and have one with vine shield and the other with eye shield.

[Tifone]

@ llama - good suggestion, but one should add that being the Eye Shield's effect MR resistable, its usefulness against elites depends on -which- kind of elites, as ones that couple their... eliteness (?), with high MR could more or less exit unscratched from a meeting with the thug.

[Trumanator]

If you want to know about the eye shields effectiveness against elites, ask DonCorazon about them.

[Tifone]

@ Jazzepi -

you're right, if you're equipping your bane lords that way you aren't building thugs but SCs imho. And regard of cost efficiency with those gems you might have maybe build 3/4 thugs to attack a high-PD province instead of a SCs which has problems soloing it. I love that guide of Baalz, really makes you think about your cost-efficiency

[Lingchih]

Sorry, I just hate Bane Lords (and yes, I know which unit I am talking about). I use them, don't get me wrong. I use them all the time. But every time I have really decked one out, he gets himself killed or enslaved.

I'm just not a big fan of giving them really nice equipment, since they just lose it eventually. Mid-game, I use them all the time. Late game, not so much.

[JimMorrison]

Well that's why you just don't "really deck out" thugs. SCs are worth the investment, thugs aren't. You can spend 15 gems (10 with a hammer!) to put a decent 1h weapon and shield on a Bane Lord, and they become perfectly survivable for the applications you want them for. Double your gem investment, and you do not get double the performance, so just double your manpower instead. 2 Bane Lords with new weapon and shield will outperform pretty much any single Bane Lord with the same investment.

Late in the game if you have gems coming out of your ears, and you can't access any/enough real SC chassis, then sure, start really gearing out Bane Lords and/or Spectres, cause you gotta make do with what you have. But early game? If I wanted to get fancy, I'd give em a Luck Pendant. If I had bazillions of water gems, maybe I'd be convinced to throw a Bottle of Living Water to provide some backup. Helm/Armor/Boots will never be touched unless I'm going whole hog, which I never get tempted to do with a Bane Lord. They're only 12D, if you get lucky with a Conj bonus site, you can even field them naked, I've seen worse things on the battlefield.