Pike vs Cavalry - Page 2

Dedas · #11 February 3rd, 2009, 12:50 PM

But giving more attack to an unrepellable weapon (length 6) screws up the balance. See this thread:

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showt...t=42022&page=3

Ironhawk · #12 February 3rd, 2009, 01:28 PM

You know what pikes work surprisingly well against? Giants. Its cause thier weapons are long enough to get a repel check against giant sized weapons. Its a small difference but counts due to the low number of giants against the high number of pikemen.

Dedas · #13 February 3rd, 2009, 02:02 PM

Just to make one thing clear.

1. Being able to repel an attack is better than not being able to. Thus repel is a good thing.

2. To be able to repel you have to have a longer weapon than your opponent. Thus a longer weapon is always better than a shorter one.

3. There is a limit by the game to how long a weapon can be and that is 6.

4. That means that the pike (length 6) is the best weapon type in the game if you don't count damage and so on.

5. That means you have to be particularly careful when boosting this particular weapon type as every other weapon type is inferior to it in this regard. The only things they have to compete with it is damage, attack and defense.

This is not a big issue for nations without the pike, but for Ulm you have to measure the pike against - battle axe, hammer, morningstar, maul, flail and so on, in deciding what you want to buy. This is particularly messy because of the exact same gold and (close) resource cost of almost every MA Ulm unit.

Trumanator · #14 February 3rd, 2009, 03:05 PM

Except pikes have no shields, low defense, and middling prot. I honestly don't see many uses against anything other than chaff and barbs.

Dedas · #15 February 3rd, 2009, 04:12 PM

Then I can only say to you that you should play some more and check them out. They are not half as bad as you make them sound. Much thanks to repel. Have fun!

chrispedersen · #16 February 3rd, 2009, 04:46 PM

I regard troops as essentially useless after middle game... I try to transition to SC's, mages, etc.

Under this strategy, I don't use pikeman, battle axes etc at all.

About the only exceptions are:

Archers, bodyguards, some cav, and niche units. For example lankas blessed troops, tienchi's etc stay valid till the end game.

Am I missing something?

Ironhawk · #17 February 3rd, 2009, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trumanator

Except pikes have no shields, low defense, and middling prot. I honestly don't see many uses against anything other than chaff and barbs.

Hello? Giants!

Dedas · #18 February 3rd, 2009, 05:16 PM

Yes, Ironhawk... giants.

Trumanator · #19 February 3rd, 2009, 05:39 PM

Meh, from what I've read on the forums people don't use the average giant troops much, except maybe the Fomorians. Niefels don't much care if you've got a pike, and even if they get repelled the cold aura is what matters. Skinshifters I don't know that much about, but don't they also have good morale and att? Same for Woodsman, morale is not an issue. Against giant PD Pikes are probably good, but so is most anything.

Ewierl · #20 February 3rd, 2009, 07:39 PM

By the 19th century, the rock-paper-scissors of pikes involved the contest against cavalry and artillery. If the pikes form up closely, you can present a pike wall that horses won't charge; but if they form up closely, they're vulnerable to artillery fire.

The idea still makes sense in a world with AoE spell artillery, but sadly I don't see any way to apply it in the Dominions formation system (or lack thereof)!