Is password guessing cheating?

[disabled]

It would just be easier to create an intel that would allow you to see, monitor, and view everything the enemy does from your own turn.

Same for sabotage.

As for passwords, it's only practical use would be to game admins to check for cheating and to change players should the need arise (or to become a player themselves....)

[Suicide Junkie]

Historically I can think of at least one instance where one side did the equivalent of guessing the other side's password: the use of ULTRA and MAGIC by the Allies in World War II to break the enemy codes. Perhaps an interesting addition to SEIV or SEV would be to include a very costly intelligence mission that if successful would reveal the target's password, either permanently or for a randomly determined number of turns.

Any sort of password operation is totally unbalanced. Intel ops exist to change orders, view/intercept comms, on a one ship/message/something basis. Seeing the whole empire at once would cost you about 100 million intel points.

If anyone managed to pull that op off before the game was won, you'd know they were a cheater anyways.

[ June 29, 2002, 14:06: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

[Baron Munchausen]

Use of the other player's password is completely outside the game parameters. It amounts to giving someone else complete control of the empire in question without the knowledge of the proper owner. While I agree that intelligence is a bit simplistic in informing the victim of every successful operation by enemies, I don't think that giving out game-defining control is the answer. There should be some way for the game to determine when an operation has been so successfully executed that the victim doesn't even know it has occured. Especially espionage operations where no obvious 'damage' was done.

[CW]

Originally posted by Slaughtermeyer:
Historically I can think of at least one instance where one side did the equivalent of guessing the other side's password: the use of ULTRA and MAGIC by the Allies in World War II to break the enemy codes.

That was war, not game. Besides, they didn't use any "god mode" that was not part of THIS world and they certainly couldn't try giving orders to the 21st Panzers, "run the turn" in their command post and get people killed, reload their "save game" and try again. Your opponents' passwords are definitely out of bounds and any knowledge of it before the game ends is unfair.

[ June 29, 2002, 15:58: Message edited by: CW ]

[Slaughtermeyer]

Originally posted by CW:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Slaughtermeyer:
Historically I can think of at least one instance where one side did the equivalent of guessing the other side's password: the use of ULTRA and MAGIC by the Allies in World War II to break the enemy codes.

That was war, not game. Besides, they didn't use any "god mode" that was not part of THIS world and they certainly couldn't try giving orders to the 21st Panzers, "run the turn" in their command post and get people killed, reload their "save game" and try again.

---

Any attempt by a password guesser to give orders and run another race's turn would instantly give him away and I would doubt that you'd ever see anything like that on PBW. The Allies were very cautious in their use of information gained through codebreaking so that the other side would not suspect that their code was broken, a good example was taking no special measures when it became known that Coventry would be bombed.

[ June 29, 2002, 17:45: Message edited by: Slaughtermeyer ]

[CW]

Any attempt by a password guesser to give orders and run another race's turn would instantly give him away and I would doubt that you'd ever see anything like that on PBW.

I didn't mean that. I mean just being about to look at everything that an opponent sees through his own eyes is an unfair advantage, and logically unexplainable no matter how you look at it. Intel is okay, BUT nothing to do with the game's mechanics should be involved in the game itself.

[DavidG]

Comparing the Allies actions in WWII to pasword guessing in SE4 is soooo not the same thing I can't believe it was even mentioned!!! There is a difference between a game and real life you know.

[TerranC]

Cracking the code only allowed the knowledge of Enemy actions, orders, and concentrations.

That kind of intel orders are already in the game.

Password guessing would be considered to be something like getting a powerful mind controlling device, get into Hitler's head and messing everything up, destroying the Luftwafer (?), and personally executing General Rommel.

There is nothing wrong with Guessing the password, in my view, but if you take it too far as to hack the game to find it out, that is cheating beyond comprehension.

It's a game, and in a game, you get killed, and you kill also, and SE4 is complex, but easy enough to accomplish those goals without any cheating.

[DavidG]

Originally posted by TerranC:
Password guessing would be considered to be something like getting a powerful mind controlling device, get into Hitler's head and messing everything up, destroying the Luftwafer (?), and personally executing General Rommel.

Actually its nothing like that. You just can't compare this to anything in real life. Anything you do outside the bounds of the game cannot be compared to real life.

[DavidG]

Originally posted by TerranC:

There is nothing wrong with Guessing the password, in my view, but if you take it too far as to hack the game to find it out, that is cheating beyond comprehension.

Geussing the password is also cheating beyond comprehension.