Tir na n'Og

[vfb]

Originally Posted by AreaOfEffect

Your thugs have nature magic. The spell to cast is Elemental Fortitude combined with items like the frost brand.

The frost demons are called Ao-Oni. They a recruitables for the nation of Yomi, so seeing them is a matter of starting a new game with the nation and pressing 'r'. These units become summons in later ages.

In regards to Yomi being a pushover or not, the truth is that any nation can be a challenge with the right player set behind it. All nations have tools to deal with any other nation, and if they don't, well that is what pretenders are for. A pretender can always lend any nation things they do not naturally have, thus give them new advantages. Sure some nations have natural advantages over several others, and some nations are just easier to conquer with (looking at you skinshifters), but all nations have a chance to 'pwn'.

Edit: Also, I would not rely on the AI to cast spells that you want. I would also not buff a thug and then set them to cast spells at all. You buff a thug so that they can wade through melee. Casting spells yields too much fatigue in the end and will cause your units to die. Fatigue lowers attack and defense skill, it also allows for a greater chance of critical hits, making your units armor nearly worthless. Instead you should have ordered your units to: buff, buff, buff, hold, hold, attack. Holding allows your thugs to recover fatigue from the buffs. Either script your units to cast evocations and the like on the enemy before they reach you, or cast buffs and attack. A mix of the two will generally get you killed.

There's nothing wrong with a Tuatha buffing up some mistform and resistance, then letting loose with a bunch of shockwaves, especially if he's got some nice gear like a vine shield and rainbow armor, and an EN bless. He'll rout any non-100%SR army long before turn 50, and will average 5 fatigue all battle. You do have to hope that he doesn't fire off a barkskin if there are enemy F mages in the PD (or Yomi Aka Oni, or Fire Drakes, etc).

[KissBlade]

Yomi is pretty solid. It's just that some other EA nations are so uber it overshadows Yomi's strength. That and most people think Yomi is just Niefel-lite (which IMO is more Fomoria since Yomi has their own individual strength ...). The main weakness of most thugs tend to be artillery mages which Yomi is happy to supply anyway not counting the hardhitting oni troops with fire/ice/psn ranged.

[WraithLord]

Lot's of good advice here. I'd say the key points are (According to descending priority).
1. Awake SC god with nice bless. E6N4 Cyclops or E4 Wyrm. Too crowded for sleep/imprisoned.
2. Intel+Adaptation. See what they have coming at you. Quickly change your game plan. Elemental attacks on low prot demons hah?- how about holding spells+banish/shock artillery and thugs with CR 50% (elemental fort.)
3. Attack is best defense. Your stealthy thugs should rarely be used in direct battle. They should raidX3.

And last but probably most important - dubbed 0 b/c ppl (myself included ) tend to forget it time and again.
0. Whatever you do, make sure *not* to underestimate your enemy!

[Alpine Joe]

Originally Posted by vfb

There's nothing wrong with a Tuatha buffing up some mistform and resistance, then letting loose with a bunch of shockwaves, especially if he's got some nice gear like a vine shield and rainbow armor, and an EN bless. He'll rout any non-100%SR army long before turn 50, and will average 5 fatigue all battle. You do have to hope that he doesn't fire off a barkskin if there are enemy F mages in the PD (or Yomi Aka Oni, or Fire Drakes, etc).

Yeah make sure you don't get hit in the face with a fireball after you've buffed barkskin.......

[AreaOfEffect]

[quote=vfb;712523]

Originally Posted by AreaOfEffect

There's nothing wrong with a Tuatha buffing up some mistform and resistance, then letting loose with a bunch of shockwaves, especially if he's got some nice gear like a vine shield and rainbow armor, and an EN bless. He'll rout any non-100%SR army long before turn 50, and will average 5 fatigue all battle. You do have to hope that he doesn't fire off a barkskin if there are enemy F mages in the PD (or Yomi Aka Oni, or Fire Drakes, etc).

There are exceptions, and your right, it is reasonable to do such a thing, provided that shockwave is scripted. Go back the original post and note that he 'hoped' shockwave would be cast after 4 rounds of buffing, 1 round of attacking, and scripting 'cast spells'. I can't abide by trusting the AI to cast the spells I want.

[Alpine Joe]

[quote=AreaOfEffect;712568]

Originally Posted by vfb

There are exceptions, and your right, it is reasonable to do such a thing, provided that shockwave is scripted. Go back the original post and note that he 'hoped' shockwave would be cast after 4 rounds of buffing, 1 round of attacking, and scripting 'cast spells'. I can't abide by trusting the AI to cast the spells I want.

Just did this in a game, and if you have troops within range the AI always casts shockwave. At least it always did for me.

[Hoplosternum]

Tir has the advantages of Eriu but less of the downsides. Unlike Eriu it is not totally capital dependent (apart from Sidhe Lords, Eriu doesn't really have much to recruit outside the capital - troops or leaders). You have a decent reserach mage recruitable anywhere and decent glamoured Infantry at all castles unlike Eriu. So playing on a small crowded map negates their main advantage over their MA brothers - Eriu and some of the very capital dependent Early Age powers.

The Ri (Tuathans are Eriu) and Sidhe Lords are well worth a nature/earth bless so they can be Thugged. But this bless is not much use on their sacred glamoured infantry. At 50 gold each I don't think they are worth it especially as they are capital only and fairly high resources. Tir is a recruitable Thug nation and you don't want to waste the bless on those sacreds. Save the bless for your Thugs and expand with the none sacred glamoured troops (25 gold each and less resources). With the cheaper none glamoured troops as missile shields.

The Ri is weaker than Eriu's Tuatha, having one less Air. But he is still a great Thug with 2A2N and 110% AWEN. So glamour, high defence, masses of buffs, cloud trapeze etc. And at 330 he is only 50 more than a Sidhe Lord and a much more flexible Thug chassis. He is capital only along with the Tuathan Sorceress and the unusual 2A Assassin Tir have.

I think Tir is not going to shine in a really cramped map. They need the buffs to make the Thugs pay although the Firbolg infantry has decent stats for light infantry (high attack) and the none sacred glamoured infantry can be massed easily. And if the Thugs are likely to be swarmed by stuff that can actually hurt them (cold blasts freezing them) you could operate them with armies (!) While they buff the Yomi demons would waste their freezes and throw flames on your troops after which the buffed Thugs ride down the flanks to rout the demons....

While Tir don't suffer as Eriu does in research in the mid/late game as they have decent mages at all castles they still lack any easy way in to Death, Astral or Blood, including on their Pretender who is needed for a nature/earth bless. Nor do they have any recruitable clammers, fetish or blood stone makers. So the end game could be painful unless you have made that strong mid game of theirs pay.

[vfb]

Originally Posted by Alpine Joe

Just did this in a game, and if you have troops within range the AI always casts shockwave. At least it always did for me.

That's right Alpine Joe, my poor PDs were the victim of your thug! Thanks for the lessons in shockwave.

I think a couple of events had pushed it up to 40 in a couple of provinces, and Marignon PD is nothing to sneeze at (unless you are a buffed Tuatha casting shockwave!)

[Squirrelloid]

Originally Posted by Hoplosternum

While Tir don't suffer as Eriu does in research in the mid/late game as they have decent mages at all castles they still lack any easy way in to Death, Astral or Blood, including on their Pretender who is needed for a nature/earth bless. Nor do they have any recruitable clammers, fetish or blood stone makers. So the end game could be painful unless you have made that strong mid game of theirs pay.

A W2 bean sidhe can forge clams with a single water booster, making clamming easy (but requiring Constr 6 - of course, you wanted that anyway for Staff of Storms).

[Festin]

He is capital only along with the Tuathan Sorceress and the unusual 2A Assassin Tir have.

The assassin (Baobhan Sidhe) is recruitable anywhere. Still quite useless, IMO, because it is almost always better to hire a Bean Sidhe or a Sidhe Lord.

I still think that Tir is a wrong nation for a strong bless/bad scales setup, except on small maps, maybe. You can expand well with Firbolgs, and I would always get a Tuatha Sorceress instead of Ri it capital. Thugs are important, but not absolutely central to them like they are to Eriu.

Concerning the late game, clams/late game astral were a good solution before the clam nerf in CBM 1.6, and right now I do not really know what to do with these guys.