Does the AI "cheat"? - Page 2

Gandalf Parker · #11 March 6th, 2007, 02:52 PM

Feel free to tackle it if you want. Turn on debugging to a high level, play a game, look at the log to see the AI "thinking". Recommend changes.

But to say that its not impressive even though it ranks high as an AI but isnt AH (artificially human) is like saying that the space shuttle isnt impressive because its not star trek. If your level to be impressed is something that doesnt exist, then meh.

mac5732 · #12 March 6th, 2007, 03:02 PM

I've played many computer wargames, and the AI in the Domion Series is Impressive compared to the majority of the games out there. One must remember that it is an AI, not a human, therefore in order to give it somewhat of a fighting chance and to make it at least somewhat challenging, ai cheats are the way to go until a learning, thinking ai is designed. This AI in SP stands alone compared to most wargames out there and it is very well done and developed. It shows that the designers did their homework and spent a lot of time developing it. Not everyone will agree with this, but thats only human. I only wish more designers would spend the time to make their ai's as good as the one in Domions.

Sombre · #13 March 6th, 2007, 03:26 PM

-shrug-

I've played a lot of strategy games with better AI than Dom3. You can assume I'm expecting ridiculous things of it or living in la-la land if you want, but I remain unimpressed. I could list games with superior AI, but this really doesn't seem the right place to do something like that and it's hardly constructive.

I suspect a lot of you have had your judgement clouded by your love of the game. Maybe I'm off the mark, but I really don't get where the praise of the AI is coming from. So Dom3 is a complicated game with a great deal of variables. So what? It's not like the AI makes use of these variables in a meaningful way. Dom3 supports stealth, but the AI doesn't launch stealthy raids, it supports assassinations, but the AI selects targets at random, it supports the building of SCs, the AI can't handle that, it supports waves of spies building unrest, the AI can't do that,.. and so on and so on. The AI plays a very simple game. It basically pursues brute military force and in my experience it seems to lack the risk assessment to make that work. It can maybe overpower you through weight of resources, or luck,.. but that's just about it. I fail to see what's impressing you. Is it that the AI researches and finds gem sites and casts spells? Please note that it really doesn't get anywhere by doing any of this. It's doing what a Dom3 player is supposed to do, but none of it boils down to anything that threatens the player.

If it seems like I'm being overly negative in this thread then I apologise. Maybe there's something I don't 'get' about how great the AI is. Maybe I'm just the best Dom3 player ever to grace the earth (hah). To me it's just an average AI which I'm glad to have at all in a multiplayer focused title. I still very much enjoy SP and I like the Dom3 community too.

How did the Dom3 AI 'rank high' by the way? Was it for challenge or was it for how closely it matches human playstyle?

Nick_K · #14 March 6th, 2007, 03:34 PM

Gandalf - are you /sure/ that the only advantage the AI gets is starting points? I seem to face lots of enemies with very large armies even when their scales are not so impressive.

In fact, considering how poorly the AI uses its pretender design points I'd expect the different difficulties would not be very different in terms of how hard they are if this is the case. I was under the impression that the AI got a bonus to gold income at least on higher difficulties.

Gandalf Parker · #15 March 6th, 2007, 03:56 PM

You are right, I think that is correct. The AI does get that. On the average setting it gets everything the same as you.
But Im not sure if Id call it a "cheat" on higher settings. If you say "I want to play a mighty AI nation" then you get an AI with a mightier nation than you. Thats not a bad way of making up for the fact that the AI cant be as smart as you (much less a setting making it smarter than that)

Usually when people ask about cheating AI they mean seeing everyone on the map, making decisions based on knowing your moves, access to things that only the game can know.

Gandalf Parker · #16 March 6th, 2007, 04:36 PM

All right. I couldnt find where Johan had posted here the info we had in beta testing so I went back there and asked. He has given permission to post the exact formula.

Quote:

Johan K said:
Resource, magic gem and money bonuses are -30, 0, 30, 60, 100%
Design point bonuses are 0, 0, +50, +100, +150 pnts

mivayan · #17 March 6th, 2007, 04:46 PM

Minor cheats, or rule differences on normal (iirc):

The AI has a supply bonus even on normal since putting supply into army movement calculations is hard(tm).

When an AI has decided to launch an assassination spell like seeking arrow at you, target province is choosen randomly weighted by how many commanders you have in each province.

Saxon · #18 March 6th, 2007, 05:03 PM

The AI is pretty good, but it does not compare to a human. However, short of very simple games, like chess, AI just isn't that good yet in any context. Compared to a lot of other complex strategy games, the AI is excellent.

I have faced AI SC, but not often. I have also seen good spell casting choices. I agree, the large army approch is not the way to play the late and mid game, but I have seen humans do worse...

StrictlyRockers · #19 March 6th, 2007, 07:21 PM

Thanks for all of the information, guys. This is great stuff. I am starting to understand now why the AI opponents are so challenging and so much fun to play against.

Gandalf Parker · #20 March 6th, 2007, 07:50 PM

You should browse thru its brain sometime. Turning on the debug and looking at the log shows ALOT of code has gone into making it smarter since Dom2