Worst Nations in Each Era

[MaxWilson]

Originally Posted by statttis

Whats with that hate for Yomi? I wouldn't think a nation with recruitable SCs, strong mages, and powerful demon troops would be considered weak

I believe it's about

1.) The lack of strategic mobility for the SCs,
2.) The vulnerability of those demon troops to mass Banishment spam from hordes of indy priests.

Mass banishment doesn't really come up in SP, so if you play SP Yomi is fine IME and plenty of fun.

-Max

[dirtywick]

I find EA Ulm to be pretty average. I'd rate them higher than Atlantis, Oceania, Pangaea, Yomi, Tien Chi, and Kailasa. Those are the weak EA nations to me. Probably around the same power of Ermor, Marverni, Tir na n'Og, C'tis.

EA has a lot of good nations though.

[Omnirizon]

yep. if it weren't for the easy-to-muster-indie-priest banishment spam Yomi woulnd't be half bad. It's hard to solve the problem without, say, just making demons not vulnerable to banishment (which I think would be an acceptable solution). Something ad hoc like giving demons a +4MR vs banishment only or requiring at least H2 to effect demons is not really modable (I don't think) and not likely to be added by devs.

Demons just shouldn't be effected by banish. Smite Demon should become just a banish for demons while remaining H2. Aside from countering Yomi, banishing demons just isn't a common tactic or one that plays a role elsewhere in the game; ergo demons could be removed from the types of units the spell effects without really impacting the game (aside from making Yomi 'worth it').

Can banish be modded in that way (remove demons as being effected?) I didnt think it could.

[Burnsaber]

Originally Posted by Omnirizon

Can banish be modded in that way (remove demons as being effected?) I didnt think it could.

It can be modded. Easily. Try this:

#selectspell "Banishment"
#spec 75763712
#end

The spec value makes it: MR negates, only affects hostile, works underwater and works only on undead.

[MaxWilson]

Originally Posted by Burnsaber

It can be modded. Easily. Try this:

#selectspell "Banishment"
#spec 75763712
#end

The spec value makes it: MR negates, only affects hostile, works underwater and works only on undead.

"Only affects hostiles" is a change from the current version. I would leave it at "affects friendlies and hostiles."

Note that once Oni are killed into ghost-form they are undead, not demons. Thematically I like the idea of banishment only working on Oni once they're killed.

-Max

[Kuritza]

You can counter banish spam by casting mist and darkness (lower precision for enemy priests), or antimagic - which is trickier because Yomi lacks national access to astral.

[Poopsi]

I think the point is that it's very easy to spam banish, and not too easy to counter it...

How about giving Yomi a "protection of the sepulchre" equivalent?

[Kuritza]

Its easy to spam darkness, and extremly hard to counter it.
Maybe just raise MR for Yomi smaller demons if Yomi is that weak indeed?

[Wrana]

By the way, Fog Warriors also easily counter Banishment.
Of course, Shinuyama is still better. I think the problem is that lesser Oni are just too pricey to be really useful. But then, if they would be more easily massable, it could be overkill... As for Banishing demons it's quite thematic and Oni MR is on par with other Demons.
Considering nations:
EA: Agartha, I think. Maybe Fomoria.
MA: Oceania, until...
LA: Patala. Maybe Arcoscephales - I just don't see Sybils as good substitute for what they had earlier...

[MaxWilson]

Originally Posted by Wrana

EA: Agartha, I think. Maybe Fomoria.

Fomoria has recruitable, giant SCs which are Mistform + Soul Vortex-capable and can Cloud Trapeze. Not weak.

-Max