Standing up to China

[Double_Deuce]

Originally Posted by duff

First, let me suggest pick a timeline of events which suit what you want to design and go with it.

Politically there is tension between China and: Philippines, Japan, Vietnam, over ownership of islands which would support a claim to exploit valuable ocean. Without suggesting there is likely to be military conflict it would not (in my opinion) be too big a stretch to build a camp/scenario based around very limited military clashes over the islands (maybe commando raids on islands or naval bases). A more thoroughly hypothetical choice could see the clashes get bigger.

I've been looking at the South China Sea area and the bordering countries. IMHO, Vietnam seems the most likely candidate as they seem to have a longer border of that area and have come to blows with China in the fairly recent past. Also, there is a lot of what I would call, non-resident traffic through that area so it would be easy for others to be drawn in, even if only in a covert backing of one side or the other.

Right now I am contemplating a Chinese SOF/Marine/Airborne based campaign, with pretty small battles of short duration. get in, blow stuff up, rescue civilian (oil workers), etc. For the base force I think whatever it is it be heliborne since that would be the best way to move troops around across such large areas without airfields and land bases.

[Mobhack]

About the only real possibility for a "big" war with a serious opponent might be in the Mao era when they had a split in opinion.

Here you have China effectively under one man's control (and he did do some strange things!) - which the present system is designed to rule out (see the recent election/appointment of new Chinese leaders - a bunch of them).

See this Alternative History thread for ideas perhaps?
Sino-Soviet split becomes Sino-Soviet War
http://www.alternatehistory.com/disc...d.php?t=252876

And just to add to the "What ifs" - the China-Vietnam war "going large" is another one.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Vietnamese_War
- According to the Wiki Article, China had 1.5 million troops massed on the Soviet border just in case it all kicked off into a full-scale war. What if it had done so?. Likely you would have to use sheer infantry and arty based human-wave mass, if playing as Chinese since the USSR '79 stuff is so technically advanced comparatively, whereas you have T-54 knock-offs at best, no man portable SAM or decent AAA etc.

[Aeraaa]

I actually did a Soviet-Chinese campaign-mostly infantry based-set in 1956. It was actually one of the most fun campaigns I've played with battles reminding the Eastern front of WW2. I have posted one mission of that campaign here (The crossing the Amur thread...)

[Double_Deuce]

Locationwise, it should only really affect Vietnam as Hainan is pretty much shielded by them and the Chinese coast. Unless they push that boundary out past the Paracel Islands its pretty much their sphere of influence anyway.

Chinese police plan to board vessels in disputed seas

[Double_Deuce]

So . . . anyone have any scenario ideas based on possible tensions?

[duff]

Two airborne commando groups fighting for a small island. You could make it as similar or as different as you wanted to the first battle of the "Balken wars 2008" campaign.

Marine/commando raid in boats on an island outpost.

"Spoiling" raid to sink boats before they can cause trouble - perhaps secure a position to be able to fire ATGMs at opposing patrol boats.

Heliborne raid on opposing artillery as part of crossborder firing as tension mounts. Perhaps in response to intelligence that there are bioweapons being prepared for use. Could be a raid on AA instead.

If a map could be persuaded to look enough like an oil platform you could fight over a deep sea rig.

Given the resources in dispute; raids on gas/oil terminals or even fish processing plants could make a political point


Extract some significant civilians/agents/diplomatic staff from a city - mostly opposed by armed police to start with.

Just some thoughts.

[duff]

If you wanted to you could even fight on a supertanker although you may need reinterpret the scale for that to work.

Helping rebels/minoreties in opposing countries. This wouldn't match Chinese policy as shown to date but could be an interesting battle. On the flip side you could decide the unrest has lead to internal strife for China and run a counter-terrorism opp

[kgambit]

Originally Posted by duff

If a map could be persuaded to look enough like an oil platform you could fight over a deep sea rig.

Deep sea drilling rigs are not that big. CNOOC's 981 rig, for example, is 114 meters long and 90 meters wide and 137.8 meters high. That's not real large in game terms and its one of the larger ones. Using a complex of several rigs with interconnected shallow water hexes to simulate crew walkways / pipelines might make a good setting. Most of these complexes also had helo-pads at one or more locations.

I would ignore the height of the platforms for design purposes, You'll have to construct flat terrain and then add buildings to simulate an actual offshore facility and make it possible for boat borne troops to access the facilities.

Unless of course DRG and Mobhack want to do some special offshore facility tile sets for us.

For defense, I would put limited AAA on some, but certainly not all, of the rigs, and then add some infantry for a garrison. Give them some light arms, maybe a Manpad or two and some rpgs (range variable). Some limited mortar support might be possible but nothing heavy. You can add patrol boats and limited air / helo assets for support as desired and you're set.

(Actually that's pretty close to the config for the Sirri oil complex which consisted of seven connected drilling structures and was a target of Operation Praying Mantis in 1988.)

For attackers, probably a mixed air / sea elite assault team with rigid raider type boats and some air, helo and patrol boat support as well.

If the intention is to retake your own platform or to seize the platform for yourself, then you should avoid giving the attacker any artillery or naval gunfire support. You will want to inflict as little damage as possible to preserve the facility for your own use. If this is a puntive strike, then the gloves come off and you can reduce the facility to a twisted mass of metal.

For patrol boats, I recommend grabbing Malaysian, Greek or possibly one of the Scandanavian countries (Sweden I think?). The gunboats in those countries are fairly modern or at least typical of what would be available. Alter the weaponry as needed and then just reflag them as captured equipment.

For additional color or to change the scenario objectives, you can add some civilians to represent non-combatant crewmen, make them hostages and turn the scenario into a "rescue mission".

Modify the nationalities as needed.

Using a large supertanker is another interesting idea. The largest supertankers are around 450 meters long and might make a great base for AAA assets or some other facility.

Vietnam/China would be a good match, Double Deuce. Lots of history and recent issue between the two. Malaysia, Phillipines, Japan, Brunei and even Taiwan could all be possibilities. A multinational force might be one possibility as well

http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/24/world/...ner/index.html

[shahadi]

Interesting thread. Hmm... I am reminded of Tom Clancy's "The Bear and the Dragon" wherein Clancy weaves a story of a battle between China and Russia with support from the US. Although the book is over 500 pages, of particular interest to our community is the part story of an ACR commanded by Diggs, a native of Chicago. The battle is most interesting as Clancy rightly portrayed the value of predator drones. Now back to our discussion here in this thread, "Standing up to China," a scenario based loosely on Clancy's Bear and the Dragon (see the chapter: Deep Battle) where a Chinese PLA MD is blocked by an ACR (you know Clancy, he has a lot of sub plots going on too) is I suggest a very good starting point to develop a winSMBT scenario.

What I want to share in this thread is that it is conceivable that China would "invade" an area of Siberia to exploit rich deposits of rare earth minerals and gold (as their economy falters from over reaching economic growth) under the pretext that Siberia is historically Chinese. Politically, the US could back the Russians against the Chinese if US manufacturing assets were being diverted from China to another country, say India, Mexico, Brazil or Agentina as a check against Chinese industrial hegemony (and to cancel our debt to China to boot!)

Ha, that's my two cents.

[Suhiir]

IF the Chinese felt the need to secure raw material resources they'd be far more likly to invade Siberia then the island nations.

1) No need for a Navy
2) It's right next door
3) It's relatively undefended (except right along the border)
4) There are literally mountains of untapped raw materials