Feeling a bit ... so so / All of my thoughts

[S.R. Krol]

The role of a sequel, be it a game, movie, book, has always been a difficult one. If someone feels not enough has been changed the cry goes out that it's nothing but a glorified expansion pack. If someone feels that *too* much has changed, then it's not the game they fell in love with the first time and it might as well have been called something else.

Of course there is another factor at work with game sequels, and that many times players become invested in a game and when they hear of a sequel they essentially come up with their own design docs for what they hope to see. When some--or perhaps all--of what they hoped for aren't in the sequel, it's disappointing.

To me the key for a sequel then is keeping everything that was enjoyable about the first game, honing it, and then slathering more on top of it. Illwinter has been doing this. Likewise, they're a good team when it comes to listening to the fans. Everything that folks want won't end up in the game, but that's not to say they're not listening and perhaps some of what is wanted would be used at a later point.

-Scott

Oops...wrong reply to...this is meant for the general thread.

[MStavros]

Gandalf Parker said:

If you mean new features, I see quite abit of that also. A randommap generator is a biggie for one thing.

Yeah Gandalh this is what I meant. You are correct the random map generator is the only new "major" feature...but I cant see any other. More units, spells, nations...almost the same graphics..sounds like an expansion.

Anyways, if the AI will be good I will be happy to buy the game of course, I think we all want different things to be done in Doms 3.

[Gandalf Parker]

How about at least saying "the only new major feature WE SEE SO FAR"? The game hasnt been laid out completely yet. And thats even if its far enough along to do such a feature list.

I dont want to sound like a fanboi but it sounds like you are being overly pessimistic when Illwinter doesnt deserve it. Unless you are just trying to goad them into dribbling you more info

[WraithLord]

MStavros said:
Wraithlord, more units/spells etc. is not a big improvement, those could be even added as an expansion, especially because the graphics is almost the same anyways.

The thing is that we wont have any real new content in Dominions 3.

I think this is a matter of taste. It is true that units and spells can be added in an expansion but usually such additions are relatively small. Another thing to consider is that so far Illwinter had been adding content to the game w/o "copy pasting" nations/units/spells. (I mean, take a look at AOW-SM, imo all the nations are clones with different names and images.) So adding quality content takes time and effort, which is why I can appreciate it although it's not a new feature.

Also, I think the unit res. is better and so are the battlefields and some of the spell effects.

It is a matter of taste in that, inevitably, there are always those fans who want more of the same as opposed to those that want a revolution. Its impossible to satisfy both factions

[Endoperez]

Wraithlord's post also reminded me:

Dominions II actually received quite a many improvements, which would have been enough for a small expansion pack for many other company, in the patches. I'm not even sure of all the goodies we got, but the whole modding system, Black Forest of Ulm, Golden Era of Arcoscephale, Oceania (with its shapechanging units) in a mod, probably some others. Was Return of the Raptors added in a patch, or was it in from the beginning? I think it was, but I'm not sure.

Oceania reminds me of another thing. Units can change shape when they get from under water to land - if new abilities are added for new races, this gives more options, and enables more strategies and tactics. This might force some of the tried and true strategies/tactics to adapt. And that, in turn, is fun. I think I'll like Dom3.

[Gandalf Parker]

As far as new spells, Im not sure we can pass judgement on that yet. There might be new spells which are just the same code with new damage and a new graphic. Nice but possibly considered "expansion" stuff. And there might be some that obviously added a whole new dimension and needed added programming. Those would have to be considered added content I think.

[Argitoth]

Well here's the fact: Dominions 1 to Dominions 2 looked like a bigger step before it was complete than the step from Dominions 2 to Dominions 3. The key phrase here is "before it was complete." Agreed?

[Wick]

In terms of content it's going from 30 themes to 60, from 1080 unit types to 1500+, the unit resolution increased IIRC from 32 to 64 pixels, ~475 to 600 spells, etc. So there's quite a bit of new content.

Of course, since Dominions has never lacked content, it's the new features that are most exciting. I'm very interested in the AI -- building castles is great but nothing else has been specified. Things like the autotax feature (does it look at blood hunters as well as unrest?) and any other tools to help with the MM are welcome. The random maps could be good, although going into Lairloch's Realm and learning how a 13 death caster with Cloud of Death can just erase an army probably won't be there.

[Argitoth]

Holy freaking crap! I didn't know the number difference between spells and units. Now I'm excited. Screw this thread.

[Kristoffer O]

Argitoth said:
Holy freaking crap! I didn't know the number difference between spells and units. Now I'm excited. Screw this thread.

Lol You've always been my favourite enthusiast!