Mod: Variations in Friendliness

[S.R. Krol]

Hey guys, just a quick note to say it's been awesome to see the mod forum getting all peppy again in the past month. I'll probably throw something in this month's newsletter about it, and definitely want to point people to the Teeming With Life mod.

[sgqwonkian]

Originally Posted by S.R. Krol

Hey guys, just a quick note to say it's been awesome to see the mod forum getting all peppy again in the past month. I'll probably throw something in this month's newsletter about it, and definitely want to point people to the Teeming With Life mod.

Thanks!

It feels good to be modding again.

[ExplorerBob]

Experimentation seems to have proven that using ENMY doesn't give you hostile first encounter messages. To test this, I acquired the Mantle of Babulon before encountering the Garthans, and upon meeting them, got the usual mantle response message. Afterwards, when I removed it, I just entered combat, with no prior warning.

The problem with using notfriendly is that it includes both neutrality and hostility, which is very inconvenient; it's somewhat annoying how neutrality is so disregarded in current WW.

Anyway, it seems the way to do this is to have the hatezorg/muk quests set triggers that allow for the notfriendly message to take its toll. Can you transfer uvar settings from one quest to another?

[sgqwonkian]

Originally Posted by ExplorerBob

Can you transfer uvar settings from one quest to another?

It's been more than a year since I've messed with UVAR, and the mod I was making that used it got eaten when my laptop died. IIRC, the uvars exist outside of the quests. Any uvar may be accessed by multiple quests. I think.

In fact, I seem to recall that if you play the game, and an UVAR is set to some value, and then play again without exiting to the desktop, it'll retain the uvar value. You may be able to use that, so that multiple games in a row end up with an ever-more-complicated political situation. If you don't want that, you might have to include a few lines in the quests/gameover.ini file to reset all your variables at the end of each game.

P.S.: Man, you've really got to put this mod up on the site when you've got it running. The more I think about all the cool things you can do with swapping allegiances around, the more excited I get. You could trigger alliance changes at the homeworlds of other races. Like, if you visit the muktians, it turns the zorg against you. If you conquer the urluquai, the garthans become friendly. It could get complicated, but awesome.

[ExplorerBob]

Sorry to disappoint you, and spend more of your time, but things haven't been going well at variability central.

Testing variable relations hasn't been convenient, since the Muktians never show up on the map when the moly cone (and thus their variable relations quest) are on, but from the last times I remember bumping into them, they were stubbornly neutral.

Here's the code I'm using right now:

Originally Posted by lovemuk

FLAG event
KEYS muktian

STAR 0
FLAG existing
PLNT hope
ITEM wp_projmoly
SVAR wormthink wormlove
END STAR

CONDITION 0
TYPE preenc
STR0 muktian
END CONDITION

CONDITION 1
TYPE uvar
STR0 wormthink
STR1 wormlove
END CONDITION

PAGE 0
REQ0 0
REQ1 1
ACTN popup endquest break
MUSC music/vidcast.ogg
GFXP races/muktian.jpg 0
FRND muktian
TITL Muktian Vidcast
TEXT Greetings, outdwellers. We welcome you to Muktian space. While you enjoy sanctuary, rest assured that an array of security forces stand at the ready to deal with any problems that might arise.
END PAGE

PAGE 1
REQ0 0
REQ1 1
ACTN popup endquest
MUSC music/vidcast.ogg
GFXP races/muktian.jpg 0
FRND muktian
TITL Muktian Vidcast
TEXT Hail, allies from beyond. This is Muktian space and you are welcome here. Feel safe in the knowledge that our system is protected by all of the formidable power our military can muster.
END PAGE

PAGE 2
REQ0 0
REQ1 1
ACTN popup endquest
MUSC music/vidcast.ogg
GFXP races/muktian.jpg 0
FRND muktian
TITL Muktian Vidcast
TEXT Welcome to Muktian space, far venturers. The wonders of our deep grottoes await you. You may consider this system a Haven, even as a brace of security drones have been dispatched to assure your protection.
END PAGE

I took to inserting these texts when it became evident that artificially altering a race's relations with you prevented you from seeing their normal comm text. I inserted three of them in a half-hearted attempt at randomness that I expect will fail.

The Muktian race file hasn't been tampered in any way that would affect their appearance.

Let me know what you think of this problem, and the likelihood of this quest working.

[ExplorerBob]

Working on some quite complicated code at the moment. When all is said and done, variations in friendliness should fully affect how mercs/ally ships behave, and are treated by the home race.

[ExplorerBob]

As is par, I have experienced some complications.

The current code for handling ally relations is less than reliable. Please take a look at it, when you have the time; I'll post up all the files necessary to handle variable relations at the moment.

One notable difficulty with the current code is that, if I recall right, it refuses to acknowledge homeworld special relations, and will instead give you the neutral party line, even though it works fine if you visit a non-homeworld star also controlled by the Muktians.

The file should work, but if you experience any trouble, please let me know.

[sgqwonkian]

Having looked briefly at your code and not found any obvious typos or conflicts*, I suspect the problem lies in when "TYPE homeworld" triggers.

I think it triggers only upon arriving at a homeworld and either avoiding or surviving a fight. After all, it's the same code used in the main game's home_muk to tell you "You have won a decisive victory!" and that only happens after the battle is over.

So, if you want them to be friendly or enemy at the homeworld, you need to make sure it's set before you ever get to the homeworld.

Currently, on the first two pages of lovemuk, you have a REQ3 that draws on either CONDITION 4 or 5. One of those is "nothome", so it'll trigger before the fight whenever you're not at Bandur. The other is "homeworld", so it'll only trigger at Bandur, but after the fight is over.

I think the solution is to get rid of REQ3 on the first page of lovemuk, and get rid of the second page entirely. Then, in theory, the first page will trigger whenever you meet them, regardless of where it is.

Also worth noting that in lovemuk, it's possible to match the triggers to both the first page and the third page at the same time. However, due to the "ACTN endquest break" in the first page, it'll never load the third page. If you remove the "ACTN" (and just the break, not the popup or endquest) from the first page, it'll display the third page after the first one. I think.

I'm hoping that solves your problems. I haven't tested it yet, but the logic seems sound.

__________________________________________________ ___________

*: Okay, so there is one possible conflict/error/typo, but I haven't tested it yet, and it's definitely not related to what's causing the muktians to not be friendly at their homeworld. You have REMS happen twice in page 1 of hatemuk. It targets different ships each time, but I've found that with some codes (it was either ITEM or ITMS, don't remember which off the top of my head) there's trouble when you use the same code twice in one page.

Don't know if that will be the case with REMS, but I mention it just in case. Should you ever find that the ship doesn't go away, it's probably because of the code happening twice on the same page - only one activation happens. The solution, should that problem manifest, would be to move the second instance of REMS to PAGE 2.

[ExplorerBob]

Testing on the Muktians has proven promising and it seems this particular part of this project is finally nearing completion.

One problem has popped up, though, when trying to extend variable relations to the Zorg; I've noticed that sometimes, the game has systems with no objects in-system, which is an annoying tip as to the state of the relations. While the current code does place plasma blasters and cone cannons on Hope, based on relation state, this is only for testing, so that I can restart the game until I get an altered-relations game. I don't want the rest of the galaxy to be affected by the state of variable relations.

It's also annoying how the event takes up a standard event slot, meaning that there can be either significantly fewer or too many standard star events, depending on how the variable relations generation goes.

All in all, this project has been promising, but perhaps inferior to the original idea of making new races, similar to existing ones, with only the different attitude. I do wish WW supported variable relations by default; it would make things a lot easier if there was a genuine hard-coded way to have it randomly choose a race's alignment at the beginning of each game.

While my original plan was to have the Muktians and Zorg fully affected by variable relations, it might be better, for the sake of the game's event limitations, to leave it to the Muktians. They are "fickle and cautious", anyway, so this explains their erratic behavior in-game. It takes somewhat more suspension of disbelief to accept the Zorg randomly deciding to attack people who just came to their space.

[sgqwonkian]

Originally Posted by ExplorerBob

One problem has popped up, though, when trying to extend variable relations to the Zorg; I've noticed that sometimes, the game has systems with no objects in-system, which is an annoying tip as to the state of the relations. While the current code does place plasma blasters and cone cannons on Hope, based on relation state, this is only for testing, so that I can restart the game until I get an altered-relations game. I don't want the rest of the galaxy to be affected by the state of variable relations.

Try inserting this bit of code into any quest that seems to generate an empty planet (or, if you can't tell which quest is doing it, insert this to every new quest that doesn't have a STAR block, or whose only STAR block references Hope / Glory).

STAR 0
STRC yellow
END STAR

CONDITION 0
TYPE explore
STR0 0
END CONDITION

PAGE 0
REQ0 0
ITMS 1 tech
END PAGE

That should put a random item at the stars that are turning up empty. It should mask the problem nicely - the players will never be able to tell that anything unusual loaded at all.