Attack rearmost - how does it really work?

[analytic_kernel]

Originally Posted by thejeff

I don't think its Zones of Control. I've seen small groups move down the side, then make a sharp turn and close almost to the center to reach a target.

I've also seen larger groups have one flank get involved in a fight when they come in contact with the enemy, while the rest of the group continues towards the rear.

Does the debug log shed any light on this? I've never checked.

Yeah, I've also seen both of those behaviors as well.
Running with "-dd", the debug output doesn't show too much about how targets are chosen. It does mention that the squads are following the "Attack rear" orders, so at least we can be fairly confident that those are not being changed for some reason or other.

Anyway, I used Gandalf Parker's BattleSim map to run some experiments. There are still more to do, but here is the setup and preliminary results.

Setup
(1) To (hopefully) remove morale as a factor, only Morale 50 troops were used.
(2) To make battlefield movement instantaneous (and thus reduce number of checks and distractions due to battlefield dynamics), only flying troops were used.
(3) Only troops that could not damage each other were used.
IOW, squads of Air Elementals were a logical choice.
(4) All troops were commanded by Adepts of the Silver Order (mldr: 70) set to (hold)*5, "Cast" orders.
(5) All squads were set to "Hold and Attack Rear", except for one squad in only one of the armies, which was set to "Attack Rear".
(6) Squad placements and sizes were varied across experiments.

Results
(1) Squads ignore commanders when determining rearmost targets. If Silver Adept is behind all squads, he will not be targeted but a squad in front of him will be.
(2) Squads actually do target rearmost squads, given the conditions of the experiment.
(3) Squad size does not seem to affect targeting, given the conditions of the experiment.

More experiments need to be done with non-flying units, large squads jostling flankers, etc....

[Gandalf Parker]

I appreciate the testing.

There used to be a command for "attack commanders" in the game but it was too powerful so it got removed from our options. Since that was a separate command, I would not be surprised if the command that was left in was specifically something other than that.

[JimMorrison]

This highlights something interesting, though.

If you use assassins, to force your opponent to put bodyguards on important commanders, there will be squads of 5 units completely in the rear that your flankers can target, conveniently adjacent to those expensive mages you wanted to kill all along.

[Gandalf Parker]

Good point. It sounds well worth checking.

[analytic_kernel]

Originally Posted by JimMorrison

This highlights something interesting, though.

If you use assassins, to force your opponent to put bodyguards on important commanders, there will be squads of 5 units completely in the rear that your flankers can target, conveniently adjacent to those expensive mages you wanted to kill all along.

Well, Jim, my thoughts were much in the same direction. But, then I tested....

Setup
(1) Defender army given two squads of Mechanical Men.
(1a) One squad co-located with commander and set to "Guard Commander" orders.
(1b) One squad either at front or at rear of defender's side of the field. Set to "Hold and Attack Rear" orders.
(2) Attacker army given a squad of Air Elementals at rear of attacker's side of the field. Set to "Attack Rear".
(3) Sizes of defender squads varied.

Results
(1) Squads guarding commanders are ignored during squad targeting.
(2) Non-guardian squad always chosen no matter its size or position on battlefield.

I know the above assessment is probably going to be questioned. Maybe I'm overlooking something, but it seems to be a fairly clean experimental setup. I would certainly welcome independent verification of this.

My guess is that units with "Guard Commander" orders are specially flagged as guardians (for the purposes of assassination attempt resolution), and this flag must be getting considered by the squad targeting logic. (I've noticed that there is a #bodyguards map mod command which is distinct from #units, so this might lend further credibility to the hypothesis.)

Perhaps this isn't new to anyone, but another interesting observation is that there appears to be two kinds of targeting: squad targeting and individual targeting. A squad will attack another squad with all units initially, but after a round of combat, any non-engaged units of that squad will individually look for other nearby targets, including members of other squads. I think one sees this when flankers are trotting down the field and some get peeled off into nearby scrums, but it is very obvious in the experiments with fliers.

[MaxWilson]

I'm not surprised that guards get ignored for purposes of Attack Rearmost, since they get ignored for purposes of Stay Behind Troops. Thanks for testing, though. Your findings with squad/individual targeting are also interesting.

-Max

[Lingchih]

I've generally had good results with attack rearmost with Hector and his elephants (if you couple them with a powerful attack force in the front), and with insane flying units, like a Gorgon. Hector generally bypasses indie front line troops and does attack the commanders in the rear, and a Gorgon seems to think front line troops are not worth the trouble, and immediately hits the rear. Other units... meh. They might attack anything on the way.

[Illuminated One]

Hmm, I've always had problems with my mages and guards in the rear being attacked by fliers. At some point I placed a decoy squad behind the mages which seemed to help.

I've now tested this with three squads of Caelum infantry, two set guard commander with a commander on (hold)(hold)(attack rear) and one set to (hold and attack rear). One archer squad was also there.
Defender were four squads of Marverni infantry and one druid with guards at the very rear.
Result:



The behindmost squad was those that was set to (hold and attack rear).

[analytic_kernel]

Originally Posted by Illuminated One

Hmm, I've always had problems with my mages and guards in the rear being attacked by fliers. At some point I placed a decoy squad behind the mages which seemed to help.

I've now tested this with three squads of Caelum infantry, two set guard commander with a commander on (hold)(hold)(attack rear) and one set to (hold and attack rear). One archer squad was also there.
Defender were four squads of Marverni infantry and one druid with guards at the very rear.
Result:

The behindmost squad was those that was set to (hold and attack rear).

I did my testing with one squad of fliers set to immediate "Attack Rear" orders rather than "Hold and Attack Rear". Maybe there is some difference because of that, though it seems unlikely...?

Also, I haven't experimented with squads that are guarding a commander set to "Attack Rear". It is conceivable that commanders will seek out other commanders on the battlefield. Is this what you are implying?

Thanks for looking into this.

[analytic_kernel]

OK, Illuminated, I think I see what is happening in your test case. The number of attacking and defending squads seems to matter. In my earlier tests, I had 1 attacking squad with 2 defending squads to choose from. When I added a second attacking squad, then the defending bodyguards were targeted as well. So, I guess I would say target preference is given to non-bodyguards, but that bodyguards are not ignored.


Attacker Squads (nearest to farthest): Air Elementals (size 2), Silver Adept + Mechanical Men, Air Elementals (size 4)


Defender Squads: Mechanical Men, Silver Adept + Mechanical Men


Two Attacking Squads (Attack Rear) Targeting Two Defending Squads (Hold and Attack, Guard Commander)


One Attacking Squad (Attack Rear) Targeting Non-Bodyguard Squad (Hold and Attack)