Polish and Bulgarian OOBs

[SaS TrooP]

So its settled then. If you dispose good sources for that I have support leaving it like that. Still, points 4 and 5 are most important for me. Will see what happens in next version of the game.

[Kenny]

Originally Posted by DRG

Based on what was discussed months ago and ignoring any " What-if-in-war-Poland-bought-better-ammo" hypotheticals what's there now in the OOB's represents what is available in real life......

.....and until I see information that improves on that from actual credited sources I can cross reference, that's the way it's going to stay.

Don

Just my opinion Sir,but I rather like the way SPMBT is at present and the fact it's going to stay that way.

I just wonder what part of the word no is it that some people do not understand.

[DRG]

Originally Posted by SaS TrooP

..................Still, points 4 and 5 are most important for me. Will see what happens in next version of the game.

Originally Posted by SaS TrooP

4. Dezamet produces advanced warheads since early '80s. I dont understand why LWP lost PG-7VL (penetration of 50cm as far as I know remember) to favour of PG-7V warhead (33-35cm pen). This touched most of late cold war era units, no sense giving all possible IDs here.
Idea: Suggested switching RPG-7 --> RPG-7V for OOB 2 Units: too much to list, would have to edit OOB on the run

:

This would be a lot easier if you stopped guessing about things and read those 103 posts I told you to read

The Poles "Lost" the "RPG-7V 93mm" ( weapon 19 ) with 50cm of penetation because.........

- there's no sign of usage of PG-7VL rounds with 500 penetration.

We N E V E R had the Poles with the "PG-7VL rounds " but we did have "RPG-7V 93mm" ( weapon 19 ) with 50cm pen ( which is what he is refering to ...)

However you DO GET the RPG-7MT with 50 cm of multi-charge heat penetration starting 2007 for mainly para/SF units that you didn't have before ( the weapons was upgraded to MCH for ver6 )

Don

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I don't know if this helps or not. The ZPS site is about useless as it doesn't provide any specs at all, except to show we make 120mm/125mm tank ammo and here are the types we make. What is clear is the 125mm round made from ~1991 to 2000 wasn't that great with a universally excepted penetration rate (On the net from all source types.) of 460mm @ 2km. In 2001 with changes made to both the penetrator and propellant casing the penetration rate was increased to 540mm @ 2km (Again from all source types.) though less than a handful indicated a range of penetration from 500mm to 560mm @ 2km. 540mm seems to be within the margin of error and preponderance of sites and pages gone through. There were "shadows" of information that improvements were ethier made (Within the last couple of years.) or are being made to improve the penetration of the 125mm rounds in the near future, "shadows" are just that and there is already way too much speculation going on around here already.
http://www.zps.com.pl/en/ammunition125mm.html
http://articles.janes.com/articles/J...nd-Poland.html
http://articles.janes.com/articles/J...on-Poland.html

I don't know if the JANES site provides any further insight (Current from May 2012.) to the Polish 125mm ammo issue or not, but it does seem to raise further questions (Or not.) on how effective Russian 125mm ammo was during the 80's to early 90's.

Regards,
Pat

[Kenny]

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

I don't know if this helps or not. The ZPS site is about useless as it doesn't provide any specs at all, except to show we make 120mm/125mm tank ammo and here are the types we make. What is clear is the 125mm round made from ~1991 to 2000 wasn't that great with a universally excepted penetration rate (On the net from all source types.) of 460mm @ 2km. In 2001 with changes made to both the penetrator and propellant casing the penetration rate was increased to 540mm @ 2km (Again from all source types.) though less than a handful indicated a range of penetration from 500mm to 560mm @ 2km. 540mm seems to be within the margin of error and preponderance of sites and pages gone through. There were "shadows" of information that improvements were ethier made (Within the last couple of years.) or are being made to improve the penetration of the 125mm rounds in the near future, "shadows" are just that and there is already way too much speculation going on around here already.
http://www.zps.com.pl/en/ammunition125mm.html
http://articles.janes.com/articles/J...nd-Poland.html
http://articles.janes.com/articles/J...on-Poland.html

I don't know if the JANES site provides any further insight (Current from May 2012.) to the Polish 125mm ammo issue or not, but it does seem to raise further questions (Or not.) on how effective Russian 125mm ammo was during the 80's to early 90's.

Regards,
Pat

Pat, this reply is no reflection upon you but just a supplement in the spirit of your reply to the unhappy campers in SPMBT world. AFAIC,if it ain't broke,don't fix it and please don't waste your time trying to placate those that don't appreciate what I consider to be the epitome of wargamming,and a free one at that.


AFAIC,this whole deal is a moot point. This wonderful battle simulator is suited for anyone to customise their tastes to play against the computer. Heck,I even have my own personal OBAT to play against the A-I( only the U.S 012),though the difference versus the recent 6.0 Obat ugprade to that military force only differs to the tune of maybe 0.05% overall,just based on my experience in the U.S. Army. Don and Andy spent many days and nights over the years trying to get the whole 9 yards as correct as possible. IMO they have succeeded way beyond what I thought possible 10 years ago. Nobody is perfect but IMO they are closer to it any anyone else in the gaming genre and once again,I like this sim just how it's being presented in 6.0. If you are unhappy,play against the A-1 with your own Obat(fill in the blanks as to how it should be). I believe in letting Jesse rob the the train however he wants to.

Other than my experiences as to observing with telescopes and my obligations as a moderator on a telescope forum,SPMBT has become a close 2nd as to gobbling up all of my spare time. This simulator is that important to me. Grand Prix Legends is a distant 3rd,and do I love that one as well.

My 2 cents.

[blazejos]

Hello

What do you think about add a COIN fighter to polish and Indian OOB

TS-11 Iskra
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PZL_TS-11_Iskra

Indian air force already retried this aircrafts in december 2004 but they are still used by Polish without prospect to fast replace by new trainers.

In game are already icons in shp file
{12131, -1}, //4531 TS-11 Iskra bis
{12132, -1}, //4532 TS-11 Iskra bis (Poland)
{12133, -1}, //4533 TS-11 Iskra bis (India)
{12134, -1}, //4534 TS-11 Iskra bis B (Poland)
{12135, -1}, //4535 TS-11 Iskra bis B (Poland)
{12136, -1}, //4536 TS-11 Iskra bis D(Poland tan-brown-green-grey)
{12137, -1}, //4537 TS-11 Iskra bis DF (Poland)

There are even two photos pm29136.lbm and pm29137.lbm already in game

[DRG]

I'll put it on the list to investigate

Don

[Pibwl]

Hello,

After a loong break...

Originally Posted by blazejos

Hello

What do you think about add a COIN fighter to polish and Indian OOB

TS-11 Iskra
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PZL_TS-11_Iskra

Though it isn't considered as COIN in Poland (there's no such need), it can carry up to 4x8 57mm rockets. If we have a nice icon already, why not use it?

Michal

[Pibwl]

I'm not going to return to Polish OOB this season, but only one thing:

851 Cougar HEV 4x4 - according to Raport 12/2008 magazine, it is in fact patrol variant for 5 soldiers and driver.
Now it's used in formations #346, 347 without infantry, but maybe there should be Light Mech Infantry (5 soldiers) or scouts.
First date is in fact 11/08, not 11/09 (same for formations).
Maybe it should be reclassified to some lighter MRV class (initially there was heavy 6x6 variant in this slot).

Armament should be #100 PKT AAMG (if we consider pintle-mounted infantry LMG as AAMG). By the way, its name should be PK - ordinary infantry variant.

There could be also added M-ATV in the same class (#852 from US oob), from mid-2011, probably armed with PK as well. Then, Cougar formations could be renamed to some more generic MRAP name.

[Pibwl]

PS - M-ATV should carry 5 soldiers, if Light Mech Infantry would be used (one of them could be vehicle's commander)