Nerf

[thejeff]

Originally Posted by Quitti

Wrong.



also, you win SP by taking one province, 125pd, take another province, 125pd, rinse and repeat. Forever. It takes probably gazillion turns and wins you the game. It's still not fun. SP ai is so very boring and fsckd up that it's almost unplayable.

I haven't tested this strategy, but I have some questions before experimenting with it.
Do you start by upping the capital province to 125PD before trying to take another? If you want to do that as quickly as possible, you won't want to waste any cash on troops or mages until you're ready to conquer the next province. It should only take about 20 turns for each 125 PD to start. Less as you expand and income goes up, of course.
I'll have to try it sometime. No research, minimal troops, invest everything in PD. Maybe you would win eventually, unless you get hit before you've got that first PD up, which is quite possible. More likely, you'd be in 1 or 2 provinces that the AI couldn't take, but you wouldn't be able to expand with so little resources against the AI hordes.


If that's how you play SP, I see why you think it's unplayable.

[DeadlyShoe]

...

You can build a balanced game with gem generators, as long as everyone has in some form equal access to them. I don't mean every nation automatically gets Clam of Pearls spam, just that it's theoretically possible to balance it. ;p

That, of course, in no way discusses the negative impact of gem generators on gameplay particularly as pertains to map control, gold, and risk/reward.

[NTJedi]

Originally Posted by krpeters

So, the secret to SP play seems to be antinerfing. I find the following game startup works well:
Sites: 75%
Money: 50%
Resource: 50%
Research: easy
Clam forging: essential

Once you're drowning in gems (relative to cash), you can start truly playing around. Slashing the number of troops on the board also vastly improves the effectiveness of thugs and SCs.

Your AI opponents are not able to hoard gem generators such as clams which provides you an unfair advantage. Why don't you try a game where you don't use any gem generators and provide a distant AI opponent with a dozen or more SCs of his own.

It's too bad more intelligence wasn't provided for AI opponents.

[DeadlyShoe]

The AI in this game is actually pretty good given its complexity and the wildly varying capabilities of nations. However, complex systems like this are very vulnerable to munchkin behavior which players understand and the AI does not.

A lot of the recent CBM changes are clearly aimed at eliminating munchkin strategies; exponential gemgens and universal hammers are both examples of extreme optimization. So, actually, CBM will provide a better SP experience.

[Squirrelloid]

gem gens were specifically removed because they led to annoying gameplay. Namely, it strongly encouraged turtling *and* it made gem income both invisible and unassailable. Since gems were the real currency of the realm, as it were, this means there was no way to destroy the real economy of the opposition (since they could hide all their units with gem gens under 25 domes in their capital, making them impossible to assail, and generally speaking these would also be hiding scouts, so you couldn't assassinate them). This meant games went on much longer than they should have as no meaningful victories were possible.

[OmikronWarrior]

I've had a lot of luck achieving a more balanced game by controlling the start conditions and having "kill" rules to end the game at a certain point or time.

[Quitti]

Originally Posted by thejeff

125pd herp derp

Just take a few provinces, and the moment you see any AI, pd125. It'll speed the start by about.. say 100 turns.

It's not how I play SP (I don't play SP at all), it's just an example of how a bad gameplay mechanic wins the AI.

Also, it might not be doable with machaka or the ape pd nations. MA Ulm, MA Pyth probably have the best chance of never ever losing a province.

[DeadlyShoe]

... I haven't tried it, but I don't buy it. I've seen Mighty AIs (let alone Impossibles) field armies that could squash 125 pd by year 3. And the AI is notoriously squirrely and likes to rampage around at random through weak territories. (Granted, it often does this with armies no player would consider an expendable raiding force, but hey. :P)

And i mean, you lose a single province and you're out 8000 gold... and maybe we just have different map size preferences but I don't see how you're sitting around and saving up 8000 gold in the early game.

[krpeters]

Originally Posted by Quitti

also, you win SP by taking one province, 125pd, take another province, 125pd, rinse and repeat. Forever.

7875 gold per province in pd???!!!

And what happens when a 300-strong AI army shows up and eats it?

[Agema]

Originally Posted by krpeters

7875 gold per province in pd???!!!

And what happens when a 300-strong AI army shows up and eats it?

Think of the principle more than the exact methodology.

Start with very affordable 30PD on the border. Increase as required when a big enough army arrives, watch the AI annihilate itself in futile attacks.

By the time the AI collects a army capable of beating uberPD, you should be able to make him go through several provinces of uberPD. He gets past the first, but the remnants will die on the second. By the time he's got a new army capable of beating a second uberPD (and wasted countless more small ones), you'll have several more provinces with uberPD. You win in the end.

I tried this early when I started playing Dom3, albeit with only 70+PD on the border. Just one big army, eat a province, 70PD, move on.