The docs suck! (rant)

[HJ]

Originally posted by Zen:
One school is that this is a turn based strategic game and goes back to the tabletop wargaming which had every rule in the world and forumla and dice and everything for you to do the work. It was required that you have every conceivable rule availiable and documented in order to actually play.

Although I didn't play tabletop wargames, and I disagree with the tone of the original poster, I must say I also bleong to this Category. I simply appreciate everything more the more I know about the intricacies of design. Simply more things to appreciate that way, I guess, plus you get those thoughts about "How cool this idea/solution/feature is!" and all that.

[SurvivalistMerc]

I agree, Taqwus.

For instance, it could give you a starting theme and pretender suggestion for a fairly straightforward race like Ulm and then let you go from there while conceding that this is merely one viable example. Of course, most folks will have experimented with the Demo anyway and so will have some idea of how to start.

I do find that with no unit descriptions in the manual I have to start a game with a given race, see what they really have, then make a pretender based on their strengths and weaknesses. But I don't really mind that.

And Gandalf is right...the devs shouldn't try to make a manual. But if they could get an English major who's just graduate college and never played Dominions before and yet who is interested in the game to learn it and ask questions...that would probably result in something very useful.

The manual is useful for stating the type of ammo in the towers of fortresses but, unfortunately, doesn't state how many towers there are per type of fortress. I get that information here. This is really a wonderful site.

[jaytau]

Originally posted by SurvivalistMerc:
I respect both where Zen and where jaytau are coming from.

I will have to admit that I initially found the documentation somewhat lacking and found myself wishing I could buy a hintbook for the game until I realized how helpful everyone was on this site.

If you are puzzled or stumped, jaytau, just ask your questions on this board. There are many nice folks here... (ommitted for brevity)

-SM

Okay great.. looks like i'm not the only one a little peeved at spending aprox $55 on a game and getting only a very slightly usefull doc.

As for me needing help, I acutally have been reading the fourms.. I guess I just want to play devils advocate here... especially since I see a number of threads and questions which honestly the docs should have covered.

Honestly for me, the only thing the docs were good for is describing the bless effects of magic levels and minor fort info... oh and item descripts cuz that's not discoverable too easily in the game. everything else is just filler.

Anyway, I'm done ranting. Chances are very slim that there will be an official strategy guide without costing another $19.95 + $6 S&H but i can always dream.

[PvK]

I can imagine some people being disappointed with the manual. Personally, I rather like it. More explanation of mechanics and things would be nice, and perhaps better than the spell/item lists, although I do like having the spell/item lists in a book with good table of contents.

It'd be hard to know when to stop detailing things, though, as there is so much detail in the game to describe. I think you mainly just need to know how to get started, and then learning how things work is fun for many players.

There is a ton of info available on this forum and on the web, such as the Doms II walk-through pages someone did, and the Doms I pages which give still-valid summaries of the strengths and weaknesses of most of the major nations, etc.

I expect that fans would probably be best at writing a user strategy guide.

PvK

[PDF]

I agree that the docs aren't that good : 30 pages of user manual with some (basic) game workings/mechanics, then spell+item lists. No in-depth game doc, no tutorial, no advices, no unit lists, etc ...
I would have preferred to have a real detailed printed MANUAL, and some Excel or PDF files with spells, items AND units lists.

[Raen]

I think the docs are both good and bad (how's that for making a stand? )

For someone who never played Dom 1, those first 10 or so pages are actually rather useful; I found out a few things I hadn't known before. And at least, unlike some manuals I could mention, the rules in the manual and the rules actually in place in the game are more or less in sync.

However, the list of spells and magic items has some deficiencies. First, that it isn't in alphabetical order, and second, that it's there at all instead of a list of units and their stats by nation. Some description of themes would have been nice as well.

I see no particular reason why spell descriptions and costs should be ok, but unit specs, etc. are "pandering to laziness." The game is either opaque or explained....

See, that is a good idea and other games have used it.

It is perfectly acceptable to have a PDF or even some uglish Excel file cleaned up with some spacing with all the units, items, and spells.

There was talk before the release about a tutorial/quick-start on the forums, but it was too late and the game was already to CD and package generation and printing done.

For the future though, I'd hope that IW would follow that path.

Maybe it is those who didn't already play Dom1 that found the manual decent; because even though I had skimmed the PDF of the Dom1 manual it was of quite a bit of help nailing things down.

In the end; I was happier about having an early(!) release as opposed to the UBER manual.

[ December 06, 2003, 00:10: Message edited by: Zen ]

[Adept]

The manual doesn't suck.

I hope the Illwinter boys will eventually give us back the nice .pdf docks, in addition to the manual we get when buying the game. For one thing, a nice A4 print is easier to read, and for another I like to have the color pictures for the magic items.

The manual is ok though, and very useful for a new user, I'm sure.

I like the way the manual is written. It's makes a much better read than a dry tech. manual detailing every game mechanic. It's good that somethings have to be found out during play. Much more atmospheric. Dominions is not just a dry wargame. It has much of the feel of a good fantacy epic or a RPG campaign.

Those who need to know everything beforehand (asberger syndrome being common with techie-types, of course) can find their demon-lord stats from some fansite anyway.

[liga]

I like manuals a lot and I must admit that I was hoping something better for a so strategic game ... is not so bad (and sure, i prefer developers spent time in making good code and programming than making manuals) but it could be really better ... probably asking one of the people in the community (or in the beta tester group) to prepare a good manual for a free copy of the game and some money could be a better idea ...

i wasn't able to find on the manual quite anythinh about themes ... and I think is something important in the game ... a big miss

nothing about how to set up well a TCP server ... I know that there are command line sitructions (I use linux), but for a windows user ?

A more (not too much, but really a bit better) structured explanation on how the combat works and what exactly means a 2D6 open roll (you reroll every 6 or just if you got 12?)

I would have preferred units stats instead of magic items stats ... at least the starting units for each nations ... to be abble to understand strenght and weakness

But after all it's a niche game and people playing it usauslyy spent time reading forums and searching resources on the web ... of course if the aim of developers and shrapnel games was to reach a wide market, a good manual and a tutorial scenario are a must! ... and now come back to play!

There is a brief section about both TCP/IP and PBEM in the manual on page 6-7. The TCP/IP portion is a bit lackluster but the PBEM is very helpful. I think it mainly has to do that Illwinter can't know what type of settings you have for your computer or internet connection and chose the path of least resistance when coming to explaining it; hoping that people would know about their IP addresses, firewall problems, router issues and the like.

Though in the end I had to find the thread located here to host and serve on the same machine, which would have been a great inclusion.