Tartanians

[lch]

There are five or so different sorts of Tartarians.

First are the Titans: Kings (Scythe) and Queens (Lance). The kings have 3+2+2 random magic picks, the queens 3+2 picks and full slots, making them good GoR candidates in case you need magic diversity or powerful casters. The Kings easily have a magic power of 5 in one of the paths, very powerful.

Then there are the Tartarian Cyclops. Two variants: One with a Lightning weapon and 3E2A magic, making it a very good SC chassis with good self-buffing out of the box: Earth Power, Mistform, Mirror Image, Invulnerability... and Cloud Trapeze! The other has 4E magic, so a little less versatile but more powerful. He has already very good gear and wouldn't require you to necessarily forge equipment for him. Nice for throwing Earthquakes at enemy armies, as they'll do him almost no damage at all, especially with a Ring of Regeneration or so. Both have full slots and poor amphibian, meaning that they can go underwater without extra items!

Next are Monstrum, Monstra and Spirit. They are less powerful than the above, since they are missing some slots. All are missing foot slots, the Monstrum even has no slots except for a head slot. Monstra doesn't have a body slot, too. The Monstrum has flying, though, and the Spirit a 5% regen and poor amphibian. The Spirit has fixed 3E2D picks, the Monstrum 2+2 random picks and the Monstra 2+2+1 picks.

So in general, Monstrum and Monstra are the weakest. Spirit is nice with it's builtin regen rate, which can be improved further with artifacts, but it takes a Flying Carpet instead of Flying Boots, which would mean one less misc slot. The Titans are the best magicians and the Cyclops the most solid SC chassis.

If you have the means to cure them of their afflictions, then they offer the best for their gem price. Otherwise Abominations and Iron Dragons might be good alternatives if you are making more Astral or Earth gems instead of Death. The best thing about Tartarians is the slots that they have.

[sansanjuan]

Ich,
What an awesome summary,
-SSJ

[Xietor]

I always thought the Ctis unique summon, if it could fly, would be a decent counter to tartarians.

All in all, i think an across the board 35 percent reduction in tartarian hps is warranted. And id like to see their summoning cost be raised to 30 a piece so the endgame is not covered with them.

[Twan]

When you don't have the chalice, GoH or the ultra rare healing site tartarians aren't that good, due to their afflictions.

To get a tartarian not blind not feebleminded with his two arms etc... you may have to summon a few.

And 4/5 cost 30 gems with the GoR (and more if you had to empower someone / forge big boosters for one or the other spell).

In fact my complaint with tartarians is they are a little too much random. For 50 gems you may get 5 SCs already commanders with good magic and no terrible affliction in 5 casts, you may get the same but need 100 nature to exploit them...but you may also simply have 5 blind-feebleminded giant meatshields.

In extreme luck or unluck cases, the randomness of tartarian summoning may decide who wins in a tied endgame.

I'd like to see a way to make this less random (ie : scales influence, fewer feebleminded in magic scale, chances to have commanders based on luck, etc) ; or a ritual-buff spell (like dragon master) for tartarian summoners not to summon more tartarians but to have more chances to get usefull ones.

[Xietor]

But with low cost of tar gates, players with goh or chalice have a tremendous advantage in the endgame. While they should have some advantage, i think the advantage is a bit too much.

Maybe there should be an undead healer summons in the game for some balance.

[Jazzepi]

Twan said:
When you don't have the chalice, GoH or the ultra rare healing site tartarians aren't that good, due to their afflictions.

To get a tartarian not blind not feebleminded with his two arms etc... you may have to summon a few.

And 4/5 cost 30 gems with the GoR (and more if you had to empower someone / forge big boosters for one or the other spell).

In fact my complaint with tartarians is they are a little too much random. For 50 gems you may get 5 SCs already commanders with good magic and no terrible affliction in 5 casts, you may get the same but need 100 nature to exploit them...but also a bunch of blind-feebleminded giant chaff.

In extreme luck or unluck cases, the randomness of tartarian summoning may decide who wins in a tied endgame.

I'd like to see a way to make this less random (ie : scales influence, fewer feebleminded in magic scale, chances to have commanders based on luck, etc) ; or a ritual-buff spell (like dragon master) for tartarian summoners not to summon more tartarians but to have more chances to get usefull ones.

Might be interesting if the growth scale effected how likely they were to be feebleminded.

Jazzepi

[lch]

Xietor said:
Maybe there should be an undead healer summons in the game for some balance.

Undead healers wouldn't be balancing, they'd be a catalyst.

[Jazzepi]

I'm glad that there's really only two effective ways to make Tarts. It keeps everyone's nation from becoming clones of each other in the end game, and fighting over the chalice artifact and GoH global is more important if natural healers, which anyone has access to via Faerie Court, is only important if natural healers can't heal undead.

Jazzepi

[Aezeal]

"But with low cost of tar gates, players with goh or chalice have a tremendous advantage in the endgame. While they should have some advantage, i think the advantage is a bit too much."


--> If you think that.. invest in getting GoH or the Chalice.. noone is stopping you

--> GoH can be dispelled, or you could cast it

--> Chalice could be wished for

[Kristoffer O]

> Maybe there should be an undead healer summons in the game for some balance

You are thinking backwards. Maybe undead shouldn't be healable at all.

The chalice is not intended to be a cup used by dead gods to quaff the water of life (although that description sounds a bit cool). It is intended to be a goblet that brave knights drink from.