T-72M1 question

[Companion]

Originally Posted by DRG

What I AM confident of is no matter what we do somebody will find some info somewhere , maybe now, maybe a year from now, that disagrees with the values we have put into the OOB and someone else will eventually disagree with them. I've been doing this too long NOT to be cynical about things like this.

Certainly I could add "reevaluate T-72M1 data" into the already 46 page long "to-do" list, In fact, I already have. Given the time I have available to work on this anymore there may even be a slight chance I'll be able to.

Given the number of nations that use the tank and,as "Griefbringer" already noted, the Finn versions will be different than stock T72's use by other nations and that could/ would apply to most of the other nations that use these tanks so what may apply to the Finns many not apply to the other nations that use it and I can GUARANTEE if I blanket change all of them to one standard someone else will complain and with 11 nations using the T-72M1 in the game there is next to no chance of getting reliable info on each and every one

Don

First of all, I apologize for mistaking you with Mobhack. (time to get new eyeglasses)

Will it help you if I hunt for some (seemingly) useful posts regarding the issue from the tanknet?
Or is it better to drop out and just let the CAMO team have its own way?

Regarding the researching armor values, ammunitions, and whatnot, maybe you can partially "out-source" the task?
Say, about the T-72M1 that I've been talking about, I think you can throw in the question in some enthusiastic communities, look at what they come up with, and use them as auxiliary sources if the logic behind the claim is plausible and sources backing the claim are reliable.

BTW, regarding the Finnish T-72:
http://208.84.116.223/forums/index.p...dpost&p=613526

[DRG]

Real information is always welcome. Telling me you think something is wrong without concrete info on what should be changed to isn't

--
Czech unit 18 may be closer to "reality" for the M1 series armour in general but it has a low side hull armour. All the Czech T-72's units have low hull side armour in comparision to other T-72's. Why ? IDK. 13 is standard .

Something else to look into.......

Don

[Marcello]

The cold war export T-72s are interesting beasts. Since they were built under license in several nations and were aquired by several others with the skills to fiddle with them there is scope for a considerable variation, though probably not massive in terms of actual performance.
From what I have understood there were three basic model
1) An initial version made available since 1979. It had a cast steel turret and a composite glacis.

2) T-72M, introduced during the80's. Same armor scheme as the above but with improved systems (laser instead of optical rangefinder, more accurate gun etc).

3) Finally the T-72M1 also introduced in the 80's. Composite turret and strenghtened glacis.

Several subvariants probably have existed. T-72M may have received additional steel glacis plate (done inEast Germany IIRC)
to be at least partially brought up to T-72M1 protection standards. Basic T-72 may have been upgraded with laser rangefinders
and improved systems. Some manufacturers may have fiddled with T-72M1 front turret cavities composite fillers etc. Some locally assembled iraqi
T-72M1 Assad babylon appear to have appliquè armor on the turret front. This of course before the end of the cold war. All the sort of upgrades
may have been carried out since then (typically along the lines of ERA being fitted, better FCS etc.)


Some food for thought in the following links


http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/1...striderpz7.jpg

http://www.angelfire.com/mi4/armania...t72/T72M1.html

http://208.84.116.223/forums/index.p...cavities&st=20

[Companion]

Originally Posted by Marcello

Some food for thought in the following links


http://www.angelfire.com/mi4/armania...t72/T72M1.html

Comment of mr. Rick Griest about the link:

http://208.84.116.223/forums/index.p...dpost&p=282618

[Marek_Tucan]

Marcello, judging from Czechoslovakia:
At first came T-72 "Ural", directly from the USSR. Stereo RF etc. Never upgraded to LRF (or smoke dischargers etc) , but OTOH there were just 30 pieces delivered.
T-72M-E2 - T-72A glacis, "gill" sideskirts, plain steel turret, 39 rounds (as in T-72), LRF. Smoke dischargers may be added to some pieces later, ditto for HHS.
T-72M-E4 - glacis with HHS plate (17mm), full-length skirts, plain steel turret, 44 rounds, LRF, smoke dischargers.
T-72M1 - glacis with HHS plate, full-length skirts, composite turret (sandbars), 44 rounds, LRF, dischargers.
To make matters worse, army often calls all T-72 (except the old ones) "T-72M". Funny, innit?

[Marcello]

Originally Posted by Marek_Tucan

Marcello, judging from Czechoslovakia:
At first came T-72 "Ural", directly from the USSR. Stereo RF etc. Never upgraded to LRF (or smoke dischargers etc) , but OTOH there were just 30 pieces delivered.
T-72M-E2 - T-72A glacis, "gill" sideskirts, plain steel turret, 39 rounds (as in T-72), LRF. Smoke dischargers may be added to some pieces later, ditto for HHS.
T-72M-E4 - glacis with HHS plate (17mm), full-length skirts, plain steel turret, 44 rounds, LRF, smoke dischargers.
T-72M1 - glacis with HHS plate, full-length skirts, composite turret (sandbars), 44 rounds, LRF, dischargers.
To make matters worse, army often calls all T-72 (except the old ones) "T-72M". Funny, innit?

Looks pretty typical.

Comment of mr. Rick Griest about the link:

Agree that it should be taken with a big pinch of salt (I for one I don't buy the armor estimate provided) but I thought that something useful could be extracted.

[brummbaer]

Being interested in this, in time I've collected what information I could gather about the T-72 seemingly-endless variants. Most of this come from a Tank_net thread of some time ago, and from this one as well (Marek you'll recognize much of this as yours ).
I hope it can be of some help, and in (very likely) case of some needed corrections/addenda please let me know.

[redcoat2]

I would like to ask a question about T-72s since there are so many knowledgeable people in this thread. Could someone identify this type for me?

[Koh]

Based on the apparently Finnish national markings on the side, I'd have to say that it's a T-72M1. Bought from either the USSR or alternatively ex-DDR surplus stocks.

- Koh

[redcoat2]

Originally Posted by Koh

Based on the apparently Finnish national markings on the side, I'd have to say that it's a T-72M1. Bought from either the USSR or alternatively ex-DDR surplus stocks.

- Koh

Thanks for your reply. The photo is from a Vietnamese guy’s personal blog. He posted a bunch of pictures of armoured vehicles with the Vietnamese People’s Army. The other pictures were labelled and clearly Vietnamese. This one wasn’t. Vietnam purchased 150 T-72s from Poland in 2005. Could it be a Polish T-72M1 with the VPA?

It could of course be a Finnish T-72. The blogger may have posted a picture of a Finnish T-72 to represent a Vietnamese T-72!