Shinuyama – the ants go marching two by two…

[chrispedersen]

Dolls are *way* underappreciated.

[Squirrelloid]

Regarding maximizing income:
Income modifiers are compounded, which means that taking production scales with order scales is better than production scales without order scales. (Ie, it ends up being more than a 9% increase).

Basically, its not x + x*.21 + x*.09, its x*1.21*1.09.

The most obvious conclusion is that taking any scale with an income impact actually has a larger impact when combined with other income scale modifiers than it would by itself. So if you want to maximize income, you can't take negative income modifiers at all, and want to take as many positive scales as possible.

Ex. 21+9+9=39% is the perceived income effect, but the actual is 1.21*1.09*1.09 = 1.438, or 44% more income

Ex. 21 - 9 - 9 = +3% perceived income effect, actual is 1.21*.91*.91 = 1.002, or 0.2% more income

So taking production scales is actually worth doing, although if you're purely maximizing income, i'd take growth first. You certainly don't take a negative income scale.

[Lingchih]

Aww, did you write this just for me Baalz? That was nice. And, glad to see you are working out on Shin.

Some nice points. I might work them into my nation. I'm more of a traditionalist though.

[Trumanator]

Originally Posted by Squirrelloid

Regarding maximizing income:
Income modifiers are compounded, which means that taking production scales with order scales is better than production scales without order scales. (Ie, it ends up being more than a 9% increase).

Basically, its not x + x*.21 + x*.09, its x*1.21*1.09.

The most obvious conclusion is that taking any scale with an income impact actually has a larger impact when combined with other income scale modifiers than it would by itself. So if you want to maximize income, you can't take negative income modifiers at all, and want to take as many positive scales as possible.

Ex. 21+9+9=39% is the perceived income effect, but the actual is 1.21*1.09*1.09 = 1.438, or 44% more income

Ex. 21 - 9 - 9 = +3% perceived income effect, actual is 1.21*.91*.91 = 1.002, or 0.2% more income

So taking production scales is actually worth doing, although if you're purely maximizing income, i'd take growth first. You certainly don't take a negative income scale.

I don't see how Baalz is refuting this really? He purposely keeps the exact build up to the player. With a strategy like this you can take growth instead of prod for much greater income boost, and with no sloth you can still field some Dai Bakemonos.

I am a bit curious about the vampire commanders though, are you sure they're fatigue aura doesn't effect your own troops? In any case, they can be great artillery in their own right as you give them anything from piercers to acid staves. Throw on quickness from an Uba or boots and you've got some pretty good precision hits from non-mages.

[Sombre]

Originally Posted by Baalz

I’d like to preface this by saying high hitpoint, high protection targets is exactly the niche you’d want to use Dai Bokemono against so this is a bit of a worst case scenario for the warriors (as in it only gets better from here).

This makes no sense. Bakemono warriors are hp 9 prot 11 targets. They're the opposite of high hp high protection. If you're saying dai bakemono are exactly the sort of enemy you'd use dai bakemono against, rather than bakemono warriors, that's also untrue, since they don't want to be fighting high damage good att units.

This isn't a worst case for the bakemono at all.

[Torin]

I think Baalz means is the worst scenario for bakemono warriors.
Since they cannot pierce more armor by swarming. And is where more damaging troops are needed.

[BigDaddy]

I haven't tried it, but you could probably just augment the bakemono warriors by castling a barbarian province and then hiring crap tons of barbarians to flank in hard battles.

Actually, I have used barbarians like this many times effectively, but I've never put a castle on their province specifically to give me cheap damage dealers.

[Fantomen]

Originally Posted by Squirrelloid

Regarding maximizing income:
Income modifiers are compounded, which means...

...So taking production scales is actually worth doing, although if you're purely maximizing income, i'd take growth first. You certainly don't take a negative income scale.

Good to know I guess.

However, this is not an argument in the issue of dai vs. sho.

[Squirrelloid]

Originally Posted by Fantomen

Good to know I guess.

However, this is not an argument in the issue of dai vs. sho.

It was not meant to be. Sorry, that was meant to be an informative post. And is really just part of my 'you can do both, and probably should' argument.

[Belac]

On the 'using castle turns to recruit Shuten-Doji' question, there should be ample time to recruit them instead of Bakemono Sorcerers: When you haven't yet built a lab in the fort, and when you don't have enough money (because you have lots of forts and are recruiting Bakemono Sorcerers from several).

So somewhere in your empire, at some point, there should always be a place where you can recruit non-mage commanders.