Phased Polaron too easy to research? - Page 2

raynor · #11 January 26th, 2001, 09:42 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Tampa_Gamer:
[b]However, it costs 200k research to get there. For another 140k you can have ripper beams whith a ppk value of 2.5 (again, ignoring the special ability and stand-off ranges) and the additional RPs spent are getting you advances in propulsion at the same time.

I have never used the Ripper Beam. I didn't think they did that much damage or had that good of a range. Have you found them to be pretty effective?

SunDevil · #12 January 26th, 2001, 09:47 PM

In my games the ai uses phased shields. I think the cause of the ai not using phased shields falls under one/or both categories.

1. Phased shields not put in the ai ship design files. If it is not specified in these files then the ai will not use those ship components.

2. Components.txt file, either it being misspelled or put in the wrong order in the same family. There has been problems with the engines that the ai used, I can't remember if shields fall under this Category as well. Hope this helps.

rdouglass · #13 January 26th, 2001, 09:52 PM

I have seen many AI use phased shields. Of course, not in the early games - they just don't have the time to research them. I'm not positive, but I believe the AI has a much more "balanced" research regime than I do - I tend to focus on 2-3 specific areas, max it out, and move on to the next area(s).

UmberGryphon - I believe the normal mount for Enveloping Acid Globule is 100 (I too am at work and am calling it from memory).

And Raynor - I think the only purpose for Ripper Beams is a stepping stone to Wave Motion Guns. However, I see the AI building 'em all the time. Their range seems way too short for my taste - I think its only 2.

I do conceed that PPB's are a great early game weapon, but as many have said, the AI needs a little help at first to get going. Once they have about 50-60 turns without encountering a human, they become a much better challenge. That's why I don't use 'em (PPB's) and thats why I always play in a huge galaxy (250 systems).

AJC · #14 January 26th, 2001, 10:26 PM

I have seen the AI use phased shields in v1.19-but not very often. The AI is using phased shields more often in the latest Beta patch! I had a pretty nasty suprise from the AI Last nite- when it opened 2 warp pts into my home systems and then invaded one of the systems with 10 dreadnoughts, 8 battle cruisers and 2 carriers, all had phased shields!

I think that the PB damage needs to be reduced a bit and the cost of researching them needs to be increased dramatically.

I also think the Shard cannon needs to have a 1 turn fire rate.

Some of the smaller weapons for fighters/troops need to be balanced. Several of the small weapons do the same type and amount of damage - but take up less space on the units.

Emperor Zodd · #15 January 26th, 2001, 10:32 PM

I hope we see some changes in the next patch that will balance these weapons better.

UmberGryphon · #16 January 26th, 2001, 11:19 PM

So I mentioned that PPB 5s had a damage-per-turn-per-kiloton of 1.6 in a normal mount. I went home for lunch, and I looked up some other weapons. Enveloping Acid Globules 5 have a value of 100/2/40=1.25, and Wave Motion Guns 3 have a value of 140/3/70=0.6666.... Telekinetic Projector 5s have a value of 70/1/40=1.75, but even in late game the computer has enough obsolete non-phased-shielded ships so that I don't wish I was psychic in endgame just for TkPs.

So PPBs can be gotten early enough that they can be your first direct-fire weapon, but have enough punch that using them all the way through to endgame is completely reasonable.

raynor · #17 January 27th, 2001, 12:09 AM

quote:
Originally posted by rdouglass:
I have seen many AI use phased shields. Of course, not in the early games - they just don't have the time to research them. I'm not positive, but I believe the AI has a much more "balanced" research regime than I do - I tend to focus on 2-3 specific areas, max it out, and move on to the next area(s).

I do conceed that PPB's are a great early game weapon, but as many have said, the AI needs a little help at first to get going. Once they have about 50-60 turns without encountering a human, they become a much better challenge. That's why I don't use 'em (PPB's) and thats why I always play in a huge galaxy (250 systems).

First, how do you play in a huge galaxy?

Second... how many turns do most of your games Last?

When I played without any AI bonus, it seemed like I finished up most of my large map games in under 200 turns. Once I got PPB's, max sensors, max ECM and Battlecruisers, I just started opening wormholes into enemy systems and systematically destroying their planets. I never saw the need to research anything higher.

I guess 200 turns is still early game?

Nitram Draw · #18 January 27th, 2001, 02:39 AM

I think each weapon should counter at least one defensive item and each weapon should be able to be countered by one defensive item, sort of like rock, paper, scissors.
This would force you to constantly modify your designs base on your opponents strategy. You don't really have to do this now.
I would guess that everyone's dream ship would contain many similiar components, which is a shame given the vast number of choices available.

raynor · #19 January 28th, 2001, 07:59 PM

quote:
Originally posted by rdouglass:
...However, the PPB's skip shields and have decent range and fire rates. They also IMO are only good for early game weapons. Once the AI get's Phased Shields, they (PPB's) drop drastically in thier effectiveness.

I do agree that PPB's are very easy to research, but IMO are useless in huge galaxy, low tech games except to rush the first AI you encounter. However, that could definitely put you into position to be MEE in a hurry. Personally, I like to avoid PPB's 'cause they are such an advantage early on (its easy enough to 'rush' an AI as it is).

What other non-race specific weapon would you have me use?

I don't see any weapon *anywhere* on the tech tree that is as effective as the PPB.

Post your ship design, and we can all run it through the simulator.

That the PPB can penetrated non-phased shields is a nice benefit before the AI gets Phased Shields. But the real tragedy is that the PPD does more damage per turn than weapons that lack that particular special ability.

Baron Munchausen · #20 January 28th, 2001, 08:49 PM

I don't see how requiring level TWO in physics, and then costing twice as much per level as the anti-proton beam, makes the Phased-Polaron Beam "too easy to research". It looks to me like you'd be taking quite a risk if you were to rely on getting that before you got into conflict another empire. Especially if you want to have a good selection of other technologies before then. If you make it more difficult to research, btw, you make things more difficult for the Sergetti, who use this as their main weapon. A slight adjustment to the damage might not hurt, but the change to phased shields neutralizes their main advantage so the 'special ability' is only a temporary, unlike other weapons like the shard cannon or the time distortion burst.

[This message has been edited by Baron Munchausen (edited 28 January 2001).]