Bug or Feature: Multiple Ship Training Facilities

[Spuzzum]

If all players in a game of Poker can manage to sneak looks at each others' hands, is that not cheating? ;-)

[Pax]

I (obviously, since I described it in another thread as a useful way to utilise one-facility-only moons) do NOT consider it a cheat, nor an "exploit" in the negative sense.

Put it this way -- it causes one location in a player's empire to be *very important*.

Yes, if I were playing and had a two-moon world among my colonies, I'd plant training facilities on both moons, and on the world itself. Yes, as a Psychic race, I could theoretically then gain 12% per turn a ship stays parked there.

Think of the time and resources invested in setting that up. Think of the time and resources spent making sure the multiple-training-centre worlds aren't captured or wipte out. Think of the time and effort making sure cloaked enemy minelayers don't leave "surprise packages" along the transfer routes between production and training centres.

As for the question of how this is possible: for one, yes, the multiple "specialty school" approach.

For two, more realistic if you're usingmultiple ships ... competing schools, holding regular wargames between them.

Larger pools of cadets to draw from, sending only the best to serve on the ships (really, one shoudl be training the crew before the ship leaves the space dock ...).

Anyone who calls someone a cheater just because they didn't realise something was possible ... for shame.

I've played all of zero games against human beings (yet); I'm absolutely certain most of you who have, know yoru way around the tech tree far better than I do.

Should I call your "foreknowledge" of what research begets what component, cheating ... ? Just because I don't know the same things?

No.

The Fleet and Ship training facilities clearly say one per PLANET. Just because someone makes the cognitive leape of "hey waitaminnit, I've got three planets over there, I wonder if ships would benefit from facilities on all three ... I wonder if the benefits would stack ... ?" and tries it, doesn't make them a cheater.

Nor an exploiter. How many of you use tricks, weapons/component combinations, strategies, and so on based on what you have each discovered about the way the game works? Isn't that the same sort of exploitation some of you are characterising the "mega-academy" stacked training centre idea as -- using what you've observed about the game's functions, to your benefit?

Worst case, absolute worst case -- what real benefit does this sort of thing give you?

Better training at a primary staging point. Less time spent sitting around on one's hands (or alien equivalents thereto).

What are the risks and costs?

More-centralised training facilities. If you only have ONE of those two-moon mega-academies, and the enemy manages to obliterate (or worse, capture) it, you're S.O.L. Also there's transit time; if you're a nut about training ships as much as possible, that means you'll have ships in space moving TO that mega-academy, instead of training locally, or instead of jumping right into a fight.

...

Someone tell me again, how the idea is a cheat again ... ? I just don't see it ...

[Captain Kwok]

I never claimed it to be a cheat because it is availible to all players; what I was commenting on is that I don't think this was what MM intended for the facility.

[Puke]

im with Pax and Geo. it may be unintended, but its not a cheat, and i dont really see a need to fix it. i had not thought of trying it before, but i probably will now, unless a game owner prohibits it.

if all the other reasons below were not good enough, maybe there can be better training from having access to multiple astronomical bodies in one sector. being able to manuver around multiple planets / moons and their gravity would create a wider variety of traning scenarios than would be available at just a single planet.

besides, is it cheating to stack psychic facilities with normal facilities?

[Captain Kwok]

I guess my pet peeve is with training experience being too effective in overall battles...I tend to prefer more even-handed battles between equally matched fleets rather than the lopsided ones that too often occur. Afterall, you're not fighting a bunch of Starfleet heroes on every ship are you?

[Pax]

Originally posted by Captain Kwok:
I guess my pet peeve is with training experience being too effective in overall battles...I tend to prefer more even-handed battles between equally matched fleets rather than the lopsided ones that too often occur. Afterall, you're not fighting a bunch of Starfleet heroes on every ship are you?

Well if someone invests the time and resources into building a multiple-world training centre affair ... probably you are facing StarFleet heroes in every engagement!

Seriously though -- what you're most likely going to see is, the initial waves will be better-trained than you might expect. After the war ends, that player will be able to re-build a core cadre of Elite (20%) ships and fleets sooner than otherwise.

By, um ... all of about 3 or so turns. Tops.

Most likely (unless playing in a high-starting-tech game), it will allow non-Psychic players the same speed of trainin by parking ships there, that a Psychic player could get from parking ships at a central training point -- or psychic players to get a 50% increase in rate of training. How?

PLANET: Fleet training, Ship training, Space Yard, sundry other facilities.
MOON #1: Fleet training (1/1 facilities built)
MOON #2: Ship training (1/1 facilities built)

To do much better, you need to convert the atmosphere ... and that doesn't seem like an early-game, nor even mid-game, thing to do (not to mention 20 to 30 turns waiting for the world to be ABLE to have a training centre built on it, while an atmosphere is generated ...).

And, CPT Kwok, I know you didn't call it cheating, but Spuzzum did.

[Puke]

well, a faster solution is to import a vaccuum 'breathing' race and build two training facs and a spaceyard on each moon and planet. then you can crank out the ships, and have them trained on sight.

with regards to training though, if you want to see how well untrained troops fair, look at the russians vs. anyone in history. the only thing that kept the place soverign was their winter weather, even though they have some of the best scientists the world has ever seen.

and to quote someone else, "The British kept Quebec because the American forces were a largely untrained mob"

proper training is paramount to victory, what do you think would have happened to the causualty rate on American bomber flights circa WWII if the crews had not spent several weeks learning how to use the machineguns, compensate for recoil and lead their targets?

but if you dont like how experience affects combat performance, then change it in settings.txt

as far as giving psychics a higher training ability from their facilities, i dont think it can be done, judging by the settings file.

[Phoenix-D]

"as far as giving psychics a higher training ability from their facilities, i dont think it can be done, judging by the settings file"

The speed and top end of the training facilities are in the facilities file, and are modable.

Phoenix-D

[Captain Kwok]

I think it would be nice if MM made experience completed moddable - so that you could adjust the maximum values or mess around with the different levels (elite, novice) etc...

[TerranC]

Originally posted by Puke:
- the only thing that kept the place soverign was their winter weather, even though they have some of the best scientists the world has ever seen.

- proper training is paramount to victory

Just to send this again spiral into off topic:

Russia only had it's weather as a FAILSAFE.

The reason russia lost is:

The uneffective command of troops between the commander and the Czar during world war 1.

Stalin's Purge, which killed many brilliant commanders and minds replaced them with Communist hicks.

Both of them could have been prevented, and with the weather as a backup, and it's fervor, russia still stands.

Also: That Proper training thing?

If that was true, United States of America would be the Dominion of American States.

Also, if that was true, Vietnam would have been operation speedy resolution.

Not a flame but just correcting some flaws.