Getting a fight out of the AI

[Bakunine]

My first words must go to: Thanks for your reply Talenn. Three days ago I said that it´s unusual to see great forums as this one is. Well i must correct it. This forum is a "Primus Inter Pares"-(The first among the bests). I only surf the web for a year but until now gold medal goes to all that post here.
The mods you made look very interesting. I specially like the need for more radioactives and organics. As things are right now when setting up a race it´s a great idea (if wanna beat AI easy) to set minerals production to 120%, and farming and radioactives to the minimum and spend the rest of the points in things like research,inteligence,etc. What looks even more pathetic is that (at least until now for me) the AI always change resources in a 1:1 ratio.So I could play a game without even having to have farms and refineries.
For talking of "MOO2" the Huge Breathable Planets in the home system makes me remember Orion, but this one was a step back, at leats in the beguining of the game (oh,oh there goes my scout).
It is possible to change my original files about size and number of facilities in the planet for yours without changing the rest, isn`t it? It won´t affect the rest of the game I presume. It would be nice if you send me it to luis_curado@clix.pt or post it in the mod section.
Can you (or anyone who reads this) say me if it is possible to play a game by email in which for example you had your altered files and someone the original files?
Talenn if there's a poll for who will have the oportunity to be a Beta Tester you can count with my vote. I don't now what's NDA's but I think you deserve it anyway.

Bakunine

[Bakunine]

Jubala:

Thanks for your files. Gonna try them. I will say something after.

[Baron Munchausen]

Being able to mod my own files, I am trying out Jubala's hint about adding space yard bases to the AI build requirements. So far, I've only managed to meet an adjacent neutral in my newly started game but this guy was one tough little cookie to crack for all the head-start he had. The space yard base he had built did indeed help him churn out ships faster and put up more of a fight. I'm looking forward to meeting the major AI empires now.

[Jubala]

Talenn:
Great! I'm looking forward to it.

Bakunine:
Enjoy. Keep in mind that I went to war with the first AI I met shortly after I met them. They kept telling me to get out of my homesystem and I can't have that, now can I? So they kicked me out. But I hurt them good in the process though.

[Bakunine]

Jubala:

Haven´t used very much your files but until now it seems that it´s the AI who's getting a fight of me and if they wanted any of the three i have contacted could make me dead meat.

I set a + or - 40 systems game with neutrals off and everything high to the AI. I have a good homeworld.

I started very unluck. For the first time I didn´t had ANY planet to colonize in my starting system. Two warp-points that lead to empty systems, one of them with the thing that magnetizes ships(don´t remenber the name). After that I encoutered a race in a corner, their home system, and there was 4 breathble planets, 2 huge and 2 large, unbelievele. But meanwhile i encoutered another system with two huge doomed planets.

I dicided to colonize the doomed first, but didn´t went to the borders screen,it was already claimed. I colonized one and came another race with two ships and kaboom. I have to say that i started with my usual tactic of building first 4 or 5 colony ships and explore with them. Well that´s no more effective.Then I start sending colony ships with 2 or 3 ships and they always send more and better then I had.No alternative then abandon this system and unclaim it.

What's been saving me is that went partnership with the race who have the 4 breathable planets and i could colonize them. Now i´m at peace with all three and trying to make a fleet who's effective.

It´s amazing the number of ships they have.
Next time i have to start with less computer bonus.
It´s true that im not a experienced player with SE series, not even with SE4,(to be honest i spend more time reading this forum them playing, but if i have fun that way )but the few changes you made, make a BIG change in how the game must be played, I can say whithout doubts.
Thanks for the mod.
Thanks also to Tallen,Shadow99,[126]Mephisto,Trancejeremy,James Sterret,Tampa_gamer, and all that post or will post their hard work.

[Tampa_Gamer]

One additional thing to get a better fight out of the AI- I expanded on a concept I started in my 1.00 Mod by modifying the Default_AI_Fleets file by:

(1) Changing the number of Div 1 fleets from 3 to 2; and

(2) Changing the % to use in fleets from 80 to 90.

I went ahead and made this change to each race's AI_Fleet files and it made a considerable difference. Now it increases the chance the AI will be escorting their transport and colony ships. I was very suprised by how a little number change would make such a big difference, but it did.

[Jubala]

Bakunine:
I'm glad to hear my modest mod is working out for you. Good luck defeating your foes. You're gonna need it.

Tampa_Gamer:
Sounds interesting, I'll have to try it when I have more time on my hands.

[Michou]

Hello to you all

Another great improvement to the AI, IMHO :

In my current game, an AI which had recently declared war to me was in a process of accumulating a fleet. The only problem was that it accumulated his fleet directly beside my main battle fleet, which was waiting for reinforcement.
So on 4 consecutive turns, it put 6 ships directly beside my fleet. Each turn, I destroyed his 6 ships. Together, those 24 ships would have been a good challenge, however his potential big fleet was destroyed piecemeal.

My point is, the AI should recognized danger. I.E. It should recognized immediate danger

An algorythm like that could be implemented :

1. Spot all ennemy fleets within a single turn range of my assets.

2. If tonnage of ennemy fleet is 20 % greater than my defense assets tonnage (WP + Ship + Fighter+ Bases), than get out of range ! (to fight another day!!)

3. The % used to determined fleet behavior could eventually be different depending on the planet under risk of attacks (i.e. Never flee if homeworld or key mining world is under risk of attacks)

It is always better to flee than fight a losing battle because i.e. a 3 to 1 advantage usually means that the inferior fleet will be destroyed by the superior fleeet, at little or no loss to the superior one. It would also minimize the typical AI behavior of leaving single ship here and there just waiting to be destroyed.

My question to you guys is this one :
- Do you think it would significantly improve the challenge offered by the AI
- Is this improvement can be done by us (Mods) or Malfador.
- Would it be useful to send this to Malfador ?

[Daynarr]

You guys may be interested in a mod I am making. It will contain a lot of new techs and some changes for the existing ones.
Here are some new techs:
- 15 levels of Multi-phased shields
- Phazors
- Kinetic Studies racial trait (has kinetic weapons that do more damage on the longer distances, and kinetic technology that has inertial stabilizer and nullifier)
- Plasma Cannons (after Meson BLaster)
- Gauss Cannons (after Uranium depleted cannon)
- Quantum Pulse Torpedoes and Atom-x Torpedoes
- Laser Weapons and Laser Combat Sensors

These are just some of the things that are already finished, tested and balanced. There is lot more to be done, but I will wait for the MM to post new patch first (there are some important changes that will effect my mod). Also when I do all the techs, I will tweak AI to use them.
You may have noticed that lot of my techs so far are MOO2 oriented. I guess 100000+ hours spent on it got me.
When it is all finished, I will send a copy to Hadrian to post it on hyperionbase.com, so you will be able to get it there.

Feel free to give some comments or new ideas.

[Taqwus]

Michou --

Tonnage isn't that good of an indicator. Most of my LT designs aren't nearly as dangerous in combat as most of my CA designs; I'd rather fight against a fleet of my minelayers rather than just one of my DN warships. And power probably scales nOnlinearly with hull size even among warships due to better weapon mounts and more room for goodies (sensors, talismans, solar sails, etc).

It also doesn't necessarily know your fleet's speed, if not all of your ship classes have been seen before and it lacks a scanner. It should probably guess based on your known ship designs and engine constraints due to hull type, 'tho.

More importantly, it doesn't know what weapons, armor etc you have if you have unknown ship classes. Hull type doesn't tell you that much -- a BB could be a beamer, a missile ship, a spaceyard ship, a sweeper, an organic-armor-rammer...

It should definitely use LR scanners more, to compensate for the fact that people have a much better idea, through experience, of AI ship design (e.g. Jraenor implies missiles, Ukra-Tal implies organic weaponry -- often a mix of seeker and beam, and so forth) and don't forget that between games. If it doesn't have one available, but it does have fighters, it could sacrifice one to learn the ship classes. Alternately, sacrifice a satellite (e.g. at a warp point), an unimportant colony, intel points (if it can get through...), or an unimportant ship.

Once it knows your ship designs, it'll be MUCH better off judging how a fight would go. It could even simulate the fight

, but that's possibly a bit much. I'd suggest a win-loss matrix, except that combined arms can have a HUGE impact.

Exception: cargo. You still need an LR scanner to be sure of ship cargo (fighter design...), and I think the LR scanner doesn't work at all on planets.

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-- The thing that goes bump in the night