How dumb is the AI/Are U ?

[Gandalph]

Arkon - This sounds like intense micromanagement.

[Arkcon]

Originally posted by Gandalph:
Arkon - This sounds like intense micromanagement.

I agree, kinda. It's just that IMO sending out a fighter wing makes more sence. Look at the MM SE4 webpage that shows the graphics -- the fighter group has a certain default compositition -- Large fighter, 2 mediums, 2 small. Just like default fleet composition -- Battleship, 2 battle cruisers, 4 light cruisers. I just figured the game would do it's best to build a fighter group according to a specified grouping.

I remember one time I had both rocket pod fighters and apb fighters on the same carrier -- most fighter Groups launched were the "hit 'em hard once and now we're PDC fodder" or "5 guys with pea-shooters picking away at the shields" but one mixed group was able to give a nice 1-2 punch and then act like a 3 man pea shooter. It was cool -- if only I could count on it more often. If carriers tried to mix-up fighter Groups by name for example rather than keeping Groups homogenous and only mixing when it needs a couple more to fill out group number, it would lead to more interesting fighter designs. As it stands now, the Terrans for example under the default AI are almost silly. They only build small rocket pod fighters. If you have enough shielding to survive the 5 member hit, you can pick the off with PDC at leisure.

I realize the micromanagement angle -- building all types of fighters, loading them in the proper proportion, and what happens if the numbers aren't in correct proprtion or if they're lost in combat. In that case the carrier could launch whatever order it can. Hey, we all just give the ships a plan -- if it doesn't work flawlessly all the time well that's just fog of war

[EDIT] Multiple edits to correct grammar and diction -- Sunday morning -- typing -- grumble grumble

[ July 28, 2002, 15:45: Message edited by: Arkcon ]

[capnq]

[EDIT] Multiple edits to correct grammar and diction

One can use the "Edit" icon above the post, rather than reposting the entire thing as a Reply. Another thing to blame on Sunday morning?

[oleg]

Arcon, default Terran AI is quite silly indeed. Try TDM Terran/Earth Alliance AI. It utilizes fighters more efficiently.

Also, if you are (absolutely correctly !!) unsatisfied with 5-fighters stack, change AI setting from "launch fighters" 5 to 20. Most TDM races uses the bigger number.

[ July 29, 2002, 02:59: Message edited by: oleg ]

[Mephisto]

To Baron:
the unit with the least hit points will always get destroyed first. A stack of units is treated like a ship with multiple components (each unit one component) and when there is enough damage to destroy the smallest component of the stack, it will get bLasted. So its of no use to build one WP with only shields and one with only weapons and hope that the shields will take the punishment. The armed WP will always be destroyed first as it has the least amount of hit points.

Originally posted by oleg:
Also, if you are (absolutely correctly !!) unsatisfied with 5-fighters stack, change AI setting from "launch fighters" 5 to 20. Most TDM races uses the bigger number.

Not necessarily. The best fighter group would be one of 1 unit. See the above example. If the enemy is applying 60 points of damage and you have a group of 3 fighters with 21 hit points each then 2 fighters would be destroyed and the Last fighter could only took 3 more points. If you only had one fighter 40 points of damage would be lost. So, having smaller attack Groups will force the enemy to waste damage points. This is especially good against powerful weapons like WP heavy mount weapons. One such weapon can take out a 5 unit stack but damage will be lost while a 20 unit stack would take more casualties without wasting any damage points.

[Baron Munchausen]

Defensively it's best to have one fighter per group. But offensively it sucks. Especially if the enemy uses Emissive Armor! You have to mass fighters together to get greater attack strength. I wish there was a way to re-organize fighters in the middle of combat after they've been launched. If you could launch in large Groups for the initial attack and then tell them to split into smaller Groups once the big targets are nearly destroyed and only smaller ships with lots of PDC are still around you'd have the best of both worlds.

[ July 29, 2002, 20:50: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

[geoschmo]

The other thing is with a lot of small fighter Groups you can effectivly block a large portion of your fighters out of range of the targets. But since the targets weapons are not as short of range as the fighters, this isn't a problem for them.

Although Mephisto before your post I was sure that large Groups were the way to go and I am not now. Perhaps the positives/neagatives to both methods balance out and it doesn't really matter.

Geoschmo

[Taz-in-Space]

I have extensively used fighters and still do. As to best fighter group size, that depends on what you do with them and your opponent's ship configuration.

Small fighter Groups have the advantage of having the opponent 'waste' firepower as previously mentioned. Also in tactical battle mode you can use fighters to block movement of your enemy's ships. You can even stop or isolate them by surrounding them with fighters. I sometimes use large numbers of small fighter Groups to board enemy ships - fighters surround the ship and take down the shields and a 'taker' boarding ship then nips in to capture the enemy ship.
If I want to just kill ships, I use larger Groups of fighters for the firepower.

[Mephisto]

Originally posted by geoschmo:
Although Mephisto before your post I was sure that large Groups were the way to go and I am not now. Perhaps the positives/neagatives to both methods balance out and it doesn't really matter.

I agree. Both ways have advantages and disadvantages. All I would ask for this to follow the modders design decision as the rest of the race design might be trimmed for this end (fighter design, carrier launch bays...). Small changes sometimes can lead to huge effects.

[oleg]

The major problem with small fighter Groups is that they make a veeery long line attacking enemy. Usualyy it means that only a fraction of your fighters is capable to reach enemy ships every turn. It greatly reduces the burden on PDC. But if they attck en mass, they need to survive only one-two rounds of PD before firing. As to the damage transfer inside group, large fighters with cIII shields are rather tough. The only problem is religious race that can fire big guns and does not miss. Against other races large Groups are better, I think.