Any AI mods to make it more challenging?

[Gandalf Parker]

Alneyan said:
Gandalf, do you mean having a program make the appropriate mod given the setup of the game?

The discussions on "how to build a better AI" I tend to avoid. I dont tend to agree with many of the suggestions.. BUT just for example.. if the person chose Ulm as an AI and the MOD it created removed the cheap units from Ulm.

I was wondering if making Pretenders dedicated for the AI would help or not. A benevolent user would create a few series of Pretender files for the AI, featuring reasonable designs, and possibly even beefed up Pretenders.

It works very well. Actually you can do that with map commands and I have some scenario maps on my site which do that.

Having a few such files for every nation may help the AI, while still allowing for randomness; that is, as long as the crafty player does not look at the AI Pretenders in advance. Thoughts?

Ive suggested the same in various diffrent layouts. Newbie gods, player created opponents (anyone want to play Norfleet the Pretender of Ermor?), and player suggested provinces which could be randomly placed on maps.
www.dom2minions.com

Im sorry, in other words, Yes. There is no reason that wont work very nicely. And I would gladly offer a directories to collect player created opponents. I can add it to my nightly run so that games are created by adding 1 random Ermor file and 1 random Caelum file and 1 random... well you get the idea.

[Arralen]

Here's what I run as AI (copied together from some notes).. I start them as players, then hand them over. (Haven't checked the points with the latest patches, though.) They do quite well - and would do much better if the AI would build castles ...

It's fairly convenient to create those pretenders, then zip up all the .2h - files in the newlords directory, and un-zip them before starting a new game, so the old player pretender gets overwritten.

Would be great to have them created via map commands. Doing a random .map file that adds the AIs (choosing from the precompiled list) would be great.

By the way, did you tweak your randomizer to take care of terrain when placing additional troops?


__Abysia________________________________
Moloch
theme: standard
Fire 4, Blood 4
order 3, prod 3, heat 3, growth 1, luck -1, magic 0
DOM 7
Fortified City 50/100
5 left

__Atlantis______________________________
Son of the Sea
theme: standard
Son of the Sea
water 4, nature 4
order 1, growth 1, magic 1
DOM 6
kelp citadel 40/100 (80pts)
3 left


__Phytium____________________________
Phoenix*
fire 4, air 2
order +3, prod +2, growth +2, illfort +1
Dom 6
Castle 40/100 (80pts)
4 left


__Man_______________________________
Enchantress
Fire2, Air 2, Water 2, Earth 2, Astral 3, Death 2, Nature 2
DOM 3
City 50/100


__Ulm_______________________________
Crone
Ceremonial Faith
Fire 2, Air 2, Water 3, Astral 2, Death 2, Nature 2
Order +3, Prod +3, Growth +1, Luck -1, Magic -3
DOM 5
Fortified City 50/100 (80pts)
0 left


=> Titan°
Titan
Air 9
Order +3, Prod +3, Growth +1, Luck -2, Magic -3
DOM 6
Fortified City 50/100 (80pts)
8 left



__C'tis_____________________________
Father of Serpents
theme: standard
father of serpents
Fire 4, Death 4, Nature 4
order +1, prod 0, heat +1, growth +1, luck 0, magic +1
DOM 5
Castle 40/100 (80pts)


__Arcoscephale______________________
Shedu
standard theme
Astral 5, Earth 4
order +1, prod +2, growth +1
DOM 5
castle 30/150 (60pts)
6 left

__Caelum___________________________
Blue Dragon
standard theme
Water 9
Order +2, Prod +1, Temp -3,Growth +1
DOM 6
Fort.City


# Ermor ###############################
Vampire Queen°
Death 4, Blood 4
Order +3, Prod +3, Growth -1, Luck -3, Magic +3
DOM 6
dark citadel 20/350 (40 pts)


__Marignon_____________________________
standard theme
Baphomet
Fire 4, Astral 4
Order +2, Prod +3, Growth +1, Magic +3
DOM 6
Castle 40/100 (80pts)
6 left

_Pangea_____________________________
theme: standard
Golden Naga*
Fire 4, Water 4, Death 4
Order -3, Prod -3, Growth +3, Luck +3, Magic +1
DOM 5
Castle 40/100 (80pts)



__Vanheim_____________________________
Allfather
Air 4, Water 4, Death 4
Order +2, Prod 0, Temp -1, Growth +1, Luck -1
DOM 7
Castle 30/150 (60pts)


__Jotunheim_________________________
Niefelson
theme: standard
Air 4, Water 5
Order 3, Prod 1, Heat -3, Growth 1, Luck -1, Magic 1
DOM 6
Fort. City

__R'lyeh______________________________
Void Lord ??
Water 3, Astral 6
Order +3, Prod +1, Growth 1, Luck -2, Magic +1
DOM 6
Dark Citadel 20/350 (40pts)



Mictlan



__T'ien Ch'i__________________________
Jade Emporer
Air 2, Water 2, Astral 5
Order 2, Prod 2, Growth 1
DOM 5
Fort City

__Machaka___________________________
Scorpionking
Fire 4, Earth 4
Order 3, prod 2, Heat 2, Growth 1, Magic 1
DOM 6
Fort. City

[Gandalf Parker]

Arralen said:
Here's what I run as AI (copied together from some notes).. I start them as players, then hand them over. (Haven't checked the points with the latest patches, though.) They do quite well - and would do much better if the AI would build castles ...

I have a request in for a change to the way that indeps handle castles. As it is now they run inside which makes it too easy to abuse. If we get a change such as a #patrol command so I can have a group inside and a group outside then it will make it worthwhile to add indep castles to a map. That will give the AI castles along its path that it can capture. Not the best thing but better.

Would be great to have them created via map commands. Doing a random .map file that adds the AIs (choosing from the precompiled list) would be great.

The interesting thing about doing that would be you can turn off cheat-check and create unfair pretenders. Even ones that are not on the usual pretender list (a Harvester pretender, an Aboleth pretender, a Horror pretender)

By the way, did you tweak your randomizer to take care of terrain when placing additional troops?

No Im afraid not. I got the code worked out to recognize the terrains and put a merman in the water of each province and a cavalry in each land. But I never got a database or spreadsheet of all the units that I could select from.

Like many of the projects at dom2minions.com they all ran out of steam from lack of anyone showing any interest in them. One thing I do want to do is change the map generators to use the very nice new VGA quality that Leif gave it.

[NTJedi]

I have a request in for a change to the way that indeps handle castles. As it is now they run inside which makes it too easy to abuse. If we get a change such as a #patrol command so I can have a group inside and a group outside then it will make it worthwhile to add indep castles to a map. That will give the AI castles along its path that it can capture. Not the best thing but better.

The #patrol command is so definitely needed.
Taking it one step further would be adding a #break_siege command which would allow an independent group inside the castle to try breaking a siege each turn.

[Endoperez]

NTJedi, try the Wishlist thread.

[Alneyan]

I will be thinking about that AI Pretender idea. A couple of better Pretenders for the AI may also be needed, but that would depend on checking what the AI is good at with her Pretender. For example, a few tests seem to show the AI doesn't use Pretenders in battles, even with an army to back them. But I would expect the AI to use their Pretenders for research at least, where a bonus would likely be welcomed. And so on.

The biggest problem when dealing with the AI is indeed to make it clever rather than powerful. There are not so many ways of making a clever AI for the Users of Dominions, but powerful AIs are very, very easy to make. Since AIs with unbelievable bonuses are unlikely going to be fun, the goal is to strike a balance between "lack of cleverness" and "bonuses to compensate for said lack of cleverness". But I am digressing.

Incidentally, does anyone know of a way to fully spy on the AI? The best I can do is cast a free Eyes of God spell, and put as many Astral Windows on the map as possible (giving yourself a *slightly* increased astral gem income helps obviously; these Astral Windows do not Last long enough otherwise). All these spells are cast by free Mystics, who can in turn summon other Astral mages, and so I can watch an AI play without too much problem.

However, it doesn't tell me how the AI uses her commanders/research, and so my information is still not too accuracte. Is there a better way to spy on the AI, and is it actually useful to know more about how the AI plays?

[Gandalf Parker]

Alneyan said:
However, it doesn't tell me how the AI uses her commanders/research, and so my information is still not too accuracte. Is there a better way to spy on the AI, and is it actually useful to know more about how the AI plays?

The devs have ways but have not informed us.

The closest you can get is to set the parameters the way you want and put the game into a hosting loop for about 50 turns.

From your points Im thinking that there might need to be more than one set of gods. Some people totally play beserker SC head-2-head combat. They might want SC gods. And others might prefer to play nation-vs-nation and would rather have reasonable support-role pretenders.
Might be worth doing a poll.

[NTJedi]

I have some positive feelings the next patch will be excellent too.

[Arralen]

Alneyan said:
I will be thinking about that AI Pretender idea. A couple of better Pretenders for the AI may also be needed, but that would depend on checking what the AI is good at with her Pretender. For example, a few tests seem to show the AI doesn't use Pretenders in battles, even with an army to back them. But I would expect the AI to use their Pretenders for research at least, where a bonus would likely be welcomed.

.

In a current game (Karan,turn80, very difficult research, 1player, 11 Ai, 4 of them already extinct), the "Father of Serpents" and the "Scorpion King" from the above list are showing up in battles since around turn 40. Sadly, the AI managed to kill both multiple times ...

In another game, I'm 67% shure I have seen a Ghost King go sitesearching ... . Definitly the AI uses human rainbow pretenders for research (you can see this from the research graph).

Incidentally, does anyone know of a way to fully spy on the AI? ... Is there a better way to spy on the AI, and is it actually useful to know more about how the AI plays?

I think the devs have a "debugging Version" of the game, which spits out lots of information which players shouldn't get (easily). I doubt they'll make it accessable to anyone of us

[deccan]

Alneyan said:
For example, a few tests seem to show the AI doesn't use Pretenders in battles, even with an army to back them.

Eh, I've seen AIs use Pretenders in battle. If anything, they seem too willing to throw their pretenders into battle against impossible odds and get all sorts of afflictions.