Vampire Queens and Sneaking Armies - Page 2

Yossar · #11 April 14th, 2004, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Minrhael:

quote:
ctrl-click to move instead of sneak, then change movement order to move and patrol.

Nope, this does not work, just went and quadruple-checked. With 2 armies, one a monk leading 10 daoine sidhe and one and sidhe champion leading 24 sidhe moving between 2 adjacent provinces that I control.

In both cases if I originally sneak, then re-click to change I get choices of: defend province, patrol province (which patrols current in both cases), move, search, preach, blood hunt, construct, pillage, cancel. If I originally ctrl-click to move instead of sneak, I get the exact same choices except move is replaced by sneak in the list.

It seems there's something missing as I can think of no logical reason why they wouldn't be able to move&patrol like every regular army.

For any unit to move and patrol you have to be going into a castle. You are aware of that, right?

Taqwus · #12 April 14th, 2004, 12:59 AM

If you want to restrict access to her, Black Forest Ulm strikes me as the most thematically reasonable beneficiary.

Graeme Dice · #13 April 14th, 2004, 01:11 AM

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Originally posted by Arralen:
.. play with indies=7 or better even 9. Bet you won't get far with your VQ ...

If you don't then you aren't scripting her right, and haven't given her the right paths.

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A naked VQ with fire-4-shield kills 5..15 milita per combat. That won't make 60+ troops root 4 in 5 times.

All you need to make her essentially invulnerable to normal troops is water 2, and 20 protection. Just cast quickness, breath of winter, attack and watch the troops die. Add a stoneskin if you put earth magic on her. The VQ has almost every modifier that you need on a SC, so she doesn't need mch equipment to make her truly fearsome.

Firebreath · #14 April 14th, 2004, 01:12 AM

Bah, vq's suck. Mine got decked (along with about 200 ulmish infantry) 4 times in a row by a group of 5 random invading heroes, including a troll on his own at the end, vs 120 black plate elites, 5-6 smiths and the vq pumped up with equipment each time (although no spells, to support an ulm-friendly dominion).

Normally though, she's vulnerable to all sorts of spells and enchanted items...

Minrhael · #15 April 14th, 2004, 01:12 AM

Quote:

For any unit to move and patrol you have to be going into a castle. You are aware of that, right?

Um, ya, I knew that really I did ... not

Ah well, that should take care of my stupid mistake for the day. Thanks!

Graeme Dice · #16 April 14th, 2004, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Firebreath:
Bah, vq's suck.

Actually, I would say that she's the single most powerful combat pretender out there.

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(although no spells, to support an ulm-friendly dominion).

Then that's the problem, you didn't take advantage of magic to make her essentially invulnerable.

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Normally though, she's vulnerable to all sorts of spells and enchanted items...

Put an elemental armor on her, and minor magic resist equipment, and then just about the only thing that has a chance to hurt her is death magic. You can give her afflictions by cursing her and using very buff tramplers, but she'll get better in just a few turns.

AhhhFresh · #17 April 14th, 2004, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by archaeolept:

quote:
Originally posted by Arralen:
.. play with indies=7 or better even 9. Bet you won't get far with your VQ ...
A naked VQ with fire-4-shield kills 5..15 milita per combat. That won't make 60+ troops root 4 in 5 times. To make things more interesting, use difficult or extremly difficult research.

*cough*

a fire 4 shield? well, sure, if you're not even trying. W/ Alt 3 Enchant 1 a cheap VQ can destroy pretty well anything on the planet w/out breaking a sweat.

Basically, you are just saying that Etherealness, Regeneration, High Protection (armor or ironskin/invulnerability), Low Encumberance, Life Drain, and Immortality... are really uber together.

Well, that's a suprise!

However, that can be acomplished by a number of pretender templates... either through magic or items (though the immortality + full items slots is hard to beat).

She's the fastest out of the gate whooping it up with Indie 9s really early... but I don't think this is a problem, because somebody has to be... why not the VQ?

However, I think the full item slots means that she doesn't suffer at all for this in the late game... pretenders like the Dragons, Bulls, Wyrm, ect... can whoop up on indies early too, but they are more limited in the later game(ie against other empires), because they can't increase their power as effectively with added items...

So take away her misc slots. See how popular she is.

Taqwus · #18 April 14th, 2004, 01:26 AM

The infamous Bogus the Troll Raider is substantially nastier than most non-unique independents (Bloodhenge Druids could perhaps be nasty if they get lucky with Bleed, say). The combination of good prot, high base hp, good combat stats, a wraith sword and good regeneration is harsh if you merely melee him with living troops.

Hm. Should vampires be ethereal? I'm not sure what source that would be based on, and it's a substantial boost against indies conveniently lacking magic weapons. Take that away, perhaps give them a 'change shape' order (wolf? bat?) if one must, *shrug*.

AhhhFresh · #19 April 14th, 2004, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:
Put an elemental armor on her, and minor magic resist equipment, and then just about the only thing that has a chance to hurt her is death magic. You can give her afflictions by cursing her and using very buff tramplers, but she'll get better in just a few turns.

There is nothing that you can put on her that can protect her from AP x3 Undead damage... unless invulnerability ignores AP effects? I can never find my manual when I need it *grumble*...

Graeme Dice · #20 April 14th, 2004, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AhhhFresh:
Basically, you are just saying that
However, that can be acomplished by a number of pretender templates... either through magic or items (though the immortality + full items slots is hard to beat).

Impossible to beat, since there's no way to put as many modifiers on any other pretender chassis. She doesn't need a ring of regen, flying boots, life drain weapon, robe or the robe of shadows at all, whereas those all take up a slot on any other pretender.

Quote:

She's the fastest out of the gate whooping it up with Indie 9s really early... but I don't think this is a problem, because somebody has to be... why not the VQ?

She's immortal, which means that she can take just about any risks you want her to.

Quote:

So take away her misc slots. See how popular she is.

That wouldn't change much, since she doesn't really _need_ the AMA, and she already has inherent regeneration, so the other slot usually goes for a luck pendant.