Does this math work?

[Graeme Dice]

The Panther said:
I have always thought that because the primary blood nation (supposed to be Mictlan) is actually WORSE at blood hunting than Abysia, then something must be terribly wrong indeed.

Mictlan isn't worse. They can pay for four blood hunters for the cost of a single Abysian blood hunter.

The fact that you have to sacrifice something like 20-30 slaves per turn just to keep your diminion in MP is a disaster for Mictlan.

This is their strongest suit. You can smash the dominion of other people with your superior blood income.

[Boron]

Graeme this time you are not totally correct i think :

First Abysia can sacrifice blood for dominionpush too but it spreads also by its temples etc. normally . So Abysia spreads dominion if it wants to even stronger than Mictlan .

Mictlan isn't worse. They can pay for four blood hunters for the cost of a single Abysian blood hunter.

One mictlan priest costs 80 gold .
One demonbred 260 gold .
So here the ratio is 1 to 3,25 .
The drawback is though that the demonbred is capitol only .

If you would play Abysia BoH Sanguine Acolyte costs "only" 100 gold too and is not capitol only too . That is 25% more expensive . So it is more expensive but the difference is really not severe . For this they are 100% fire immune and don't need to sacrifice blood for dominionpush .

Not to forget that you get rid of the annoying micromanagement of assigning the slaves for sacrifice .

[Huzurdaddi]

The real power of Mictlain over Abysia is the Tribal King. These guys and the free slaves under them keep the populace under control while you blood hunt like mad.

Mictalin is basically 100% blood. Their troops are there for inital expansion but once that is done you should not use your gold on anything but:

Tribal Kings
Blood hunters
Various capital only preists to spend the blood
Watchtowers/Labs/Temples

Keep that tax rate at 100%, you can do that as Mictlain. The slaves will keep the people in line. Blood hunt in EVERY province.

Seriously, the power of Mictlain is the Tribal King. Use it. Heck, abuse it!

Not to forget that you get rid of the annoying micromanagement of assigning the slaves for sacrifice .

No kidding what a pain.

[Graeme Dice]

Boron said:
First Abysia can sacrifice blood for dominionpush too but it spreads also by its temples etc. normally . So Abysia spreads dominion if it wants to even stronger than Mictlan.

The effect of a temple is washed out by the effect of blood sacrifice. A mictlan priest with a jade knife, which is something Abysia has trouble forging, is the equivalent of 4 temples. An anathemant salamander costs 200 gold to get the same effect when blood sacrificing.

One mictlan priest costs 80 gold .
One demonbred 260 gold .
So here the ratio is 1 to 3,25.

Yep, and since you can start up your second recruiting centre on turn 4, you can get your blood income up to high levels very quickly.

If you would play Abysia BoH Sanguine Acolyte costs "only" 100 gold too and is not capitol only too.

Sure, but blood of humans can't take a magic scale, takes an 5% gold hit in all their their provinces other than the capital, and can't summon devils without a fire magic booster.

Not to forget that you get rid of the annoying micromanagement of assigning the slaves for sacrifice .

Right click on your blood hunting provinces, ctrl-click on the blood hunters. Press 'Z'. It's more work than clicking pool slaves, but not much.

[Boron]

[quote]
Graeme Dice said:

Boron said:

Right click on your blood hunting provinces, ctrl-click on the blood hunters. Press 'Z'. It's more work than clicking pool slaves, but not much.

Thnx i didn't know that .
I did pool blood slaves and then reassign the slaves to the sacrificers atm .
Your solution should be again a bit more quick


I haven't played BoH yet but i will try them perhaps soon .
The 5% goldhit because of Heat 2 only is annoying but shouldn't be too severe i think . No Magic is annoying too but on the other hand free points and you don't need so much research as Abysia .

Since your bloodhunters need SDRs anyway you could go construction 6 as primary research goal . Then you get your devils most cost effective anyway via soul contracts forged by your warlocks .


But all in all i think you are very right that mictlan is better there .
I wonder why so many ppl play abysia but few mictlan .
Your explanations were all very good .
Abysia seems to have nothing which mictlan doesn't have too .
Which other "advantage" does Abysia have over Mictlan than +80 points from heat 3 and normal dominionspred ?
These advantages are so minimal .

Mictlan in return has :
-very cool magic flexibility , clamhoarding , x-breed , with water bracelet the national mages can summon ice devils , the fire priests can summon arch devils .
-hunt slaves
-as you and Huzurdaddi pointed out with magic 3 those 80 gold sacred blood 1 priests are damn good researchers ( 6 rp ) . This even almost beats sages .

So why do so many ppl play abysia ?

[Graeme Dice]

Boron said:
So why do so many ppl play abysia ?

Abysia is cool because it's a nation of demons. Abysia has amazing national troops that make early expansion easy. Abysia has 120 extra design points by going to heat 3, death 1.

[deccan]

Boron said:
One mictlan priest costs 80 gold .
One demonbred 260 gold .
So here the ratio is 1 to 3,25 .
The drawback is though that the demonbred is capitol only .

Curious: why bloodhunt with base Abysia using demonbred instead of warlock apprentice?

[Graeme Dice]

deccan said:
Curious: why bloodhunt with base Abysia using demonbred instead of warlock apprentice?

If you expect your mage to be hunting for more than 48 turns, then the demonbred is cheaper.

[Boron]

Graeme Dice said:

If you expect your mage to be hunting for more than 48 turns, then the demonbred is cheaper.

Not only that but when something happens the demonbred still can summon a devil or be used as a mediocre battlemage while the warlock apprentice is just a blood hunter and perhaps an astralitem forger .
Furthermore a demonbred can build everything . If you fly in 2 demonbreds the one builds 2 turns the watchtower while the other one buids a lab + a temple meanwhile . then they can start bloodhunting in a fully protected and built up province

[Boron]

Graeme Dice said:

Abysia is cool because it's a nation of demons. Abysia has amazing national troops that make early expansion easy. Abysia has 120 extra design points by going to heat 3, death 1.

Whats so amazing about Abysian national troops ?
They are high protection but resourcewise extremely expensive .
With a Fire 9 Bless i personally consider mictlans troops even superior .
Imo any other bloodnation ( jotunheim , ulm , pangenea , marignon , vanheim ) has better troops than Abysia .
To add pain most of Abysia's troops have only stratmove 1 .
Most of Abysia's heavy inf costs 20 gold / 30 resources .
Marignon DF can build lots of x-bows which are useful later too by flaming arrows .
With jotunheim i don't need to say a single word .
Vanheim is not really cheaper but Vans are really good and skinshifters/huskarls etc. can be useful too .
Mictlan can use a few slaves as fodder and blessed sun warriors or eagle warriors etc. do the job .

If you play abysia do you play them with a cheap castle or an expensive one ? With something like a watchtower you won't get more than 3 HI / turn resourcewise . I personally have really not found a way how to use Abysian troops in large enough numbers that they are good .
They have rather low morale unfortunately so routing is really always for me a problem with them .

Btw : Does flaming arrows work with slingers etc. too ? that they hurl flaming stones ?