Treaties..... whats the point? - Page 2

Gryphin · #11 January 16th, 2003, 02:33 AM

The point is to not have to fight your way through thier system. Depending on your race it will gain happynesspoints for making a treaty.
Most lilkly they are Neutrals so you don't have to worry about them expanding.

Prophet-PBW · #12 January 16th, 2003, 02:53 AM

Say, has anyone been able to get an AI to accept Subjugation or Protectorate treaties?

I like to play GoodGuy-SuperPower, but always have those one or two neighbors that are hostile but weak. I'd prefer more of my wars to end with Subjugation, and less with their Surrender.

Prophet

couslee · #13 January 16th, 2003, 02:57 AM

I take it "neutrals" are the ones with the more generic flags, without design? If that is the case, the first two races I met were blantant idiots, as they started attacking me from the git and now serve my empire on methane worlds i wish to colonize. And they had generic flag types.

The intel might make it worth it, like your said, IF they don't have end game designs of their own expansion into my territory. One of them might have info, the other is isolated. And as for "having to fight my way through their system", what do I do on turn two? lol

I agree stomping the AI is no great claim (in this, or any other game). I was just wondering if others found treaties with much smaller races of any benefit at all. I know in Civ games and such, the AI races/factions/ect, in the end get mad and go to war with the super power, namely the human player. It is refreshing to hear that I won't have to eventually stomp thier butts
per the score:
Me/race1/race2
resources 88.1k/9.7k/9.6k
science 37.0/7.2/4.3

That is why I asked what the point is.

I have another whats the point question tho. What is the point of Counter-intelligence 1? It's on your list, but you can't do anything with it because you don't have any intel facilities. the advance that gives you Intel facilities, also gives you the much better counter-intel2. that imo is stupid design. If intel facilities were available right off the bat like reasearch facilities are, then CI1 would have a use. but it's not, so why even have it in the game? I would like to see intel facilities available at the begining, but in absence of that, move the counter-intel action down the line one slot. (and I am betting that can be modded, but I am not really one to mod)

couslee · #14 January 16th, 2003, 03:18 AM

In my game, I will give it a shot and see. i can always go back a turn. I decided to not bother with the one isolated race that would have to go through either myself, or the other little guy to get out of the corner. So I am just going to remove the distraction of them being there. I could try and get them to subjugate instead. will still probably re-load back, unless subjugates can't break that treaty even with MEE on. Might have to have a look at the Encl Malf again and see what it says about that treaty type.

Baron Munchausen · #15 January 16th, 2003, 03:39 AM

Acceptance of Protectorate and Subjugation are controlled just like Surrender. There is a specific setting in the ..._AI_Politics file. I forget what the default is, but you probably want to reduce it a bit for neutrals. I have used them successfully, but the AI seems to be much more prone to break these than other treaties.

As for intel, I have been toying with the idea of making some basic facility produce a few intel points. Space ports maybe? A space port would be a great place to post your intelligence officers so they could gather rumours and watch where people (err, beings?) and cargo were going. Or maybe the Urban Pacification Facility? If you take the Orwellian view of these as 'reprogramming' centers they could be auditing the personalities of your 'subjects' and reporting back on what they are finding. If one or the other of these produced 50 points or so you'd have a little bit to work with even before researching 'serious' intel techs. So as long as you only had counter-intel one and no other intel projects you'd only have intel defenses, supplied by these default sources.

[ January 16, 2003, 01:41: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

couslee · #16 January 16th, 2003, 04:33 AM

I like that idea of space ports producing some intel. Like Quark on DS9 always had some bit of info. Considering you only build one port per system, maybe 100 intel would be about right. 50 sounds low. would have to balance it and see.

edit:
the problem with UPCs, is they also are not available from the begining. I still havn't researched that tech tree. ports are a better idea imo

[ January 16, 2003, 02:36: Message edited by: couslee ]

couslee · #17 January 16th, 2003, 05:34 AM

Now, This is what I was talking about. I signed the trade alliance with the one race, their mood was "warm". A soon as I sign the trade they drop to moderate, and now the following turn they are dis-pleased. WTF!?? they should be leaping for frigging joy I signed the treaty and didn't crush them like a bug! Ingrate little mutha (explative)!

talk on the role-playing side of it, this is what irritates me about the game and treaties and whats the point. they get a warm mood, you sign a treaty with them and they get insulted I accepted their offer?

OK, so you wanna play rough? OK, say HELLO to my little friend.

Baron Munchausen · #18 January 16th, 2003, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by couslee:
Now, This is what I was talking about. I signed the trade alliance with the one race, their mood was "warm". A soon as I sign the trade they drop to moderate, and now the following turn they are dis-pleased. WTF!?? they should be leaping for frigging joy I signed the treaty and didn't crush them like a bug! Ingrate little mutha (explative)!

talk on the role-playing side of it, this is what irritates me about the game and treaties and whats the point. they get a warm mood, you sign a treaty with them and they get insulted I accepted their offer?

OK, so you wanna play rough? OK, say HELLO to my little friend.

This is caused by the way the AI decides on its attitude towards you. There are seperate calculations done according to how many planets you own that the AI could use. When you are not in any treaty, or in non-intercourse or non-aggression treaties, you are an 'enemy', but once you are in a treaty above 'non-aggression' you are a 'friend' and different numbers are used to calculate attitude. Look at Default_AI_Settings:

Get Angry Over Allied Colonizable Planets := True
Get Angry Over Enemy Colonizable Planets := True
Percentage of Allied Planets to consider as Attack Locations for Anger := 5
Percentage of Enemy Planets to consider as Attack Locations for Anger := 5

If the numbers are different the AI will have a usually major attitude shift towards anyone that changes treaty status.

MacLeod · #19 January 16th, 2003, 06:50 AM

I don't much care for treaties with the AI unless they give me resources, resupply or have multiple partnerships.

The problem is that the AI does not respond to requests properly, like requests to leave a system or attack a system or declare war. If it refuses nothing happens (obviously), but if it accepts it still does nothing because it doesn't know how to carry the request. THAT is what I really think needs to be in SEV, as it is treaties with the AI just have no believability/immersion factor.

couslee · #20 January 16th, 2003, 08:17 AM

but it does not make sence the game would even be programmed that way. I first meet this race, and leave them to their own devices. The starting mood is always "moderate". Iafter a while of leaving them alone, their mood increases to warm, and they offer the trade alliance treaty. I accept, and this has a negative impact on their mood towards me? THATS stupid.

I agree on them not responding for unit removal ect. it should be in the game that any units in the system they agreed to vacate should be gone. "game magicly" gone, poof, instant teleport to the nearest planet of theirs not in that system. Same goes for planet populations. POOF, gone. it's a game. Program it right. otherwise you might as well not have those option in the game in the first place. options that don't work are considered bugs, and should be fixed in a patch, not the next Version, tho that would be the second choice. Allied planets for attack locations should not be there either. Of course I have planets that they would like, and visa-versa. I had those same planets when they were getting all warm and fuzzy. if they wanted those planets, they should have gone down in mood, not up.

Don't get me wrong here guys. i think it is a fun game, but there are things i find in it that are irrtating, and/or stupid. Just because I rant on one of those, does not mean I am going to uninstall the game and throw the CD at the next passing garbage truck. But I am the kind of person that if I think something is poorly programmed, I say so. Not to be offensive, but to let the developers know how one of their CUSTOMERS feels. It's like not being able to scrap obsolete WP. that is just plain stupid. What empire (game or real) would jettison valuable metals into space never to be seen again? None I say.

ok, enough ranting for a while, going back to the game for just one more turn.