Frost immune Devils?

[Graeme Dice]

[quote]
Chazar said:
ElfBane,LuckyShield,FireHelmet,BoneArmor,Antimagic ,BurningPearl

Why the fire helmet? I'm fairly sure it causes fatigue even to 0 encumbrance units. The bone armour is okay, but soul vortex acts at the beginning of the turn only, so you have to start the turn surrounded to see the most benefit. Jade armour and a blood thorn or wraith sword would probably have been a better choice.

But 350 at once just drown everything!

Wrathful skies works better the more troops your enemy has, and devils cannot be protected against it. Seraphs casting resist lightning, quickness, false horror X 3 will hold off the devils for a very long time as long as you have a storm on the battlefield.

The other battle were the frost fiends accompained by two ice devils with herald lances, hydra armour, girdle of strength, buring pearl.

Those Ice Devils were equipped as anti-SC's, not anti-army SCs, so they won't be able to stand up to many devils.

One reason also is, that we are fighting in castled terrain, so cloudtrapezing onto the devils does not work...

They still have to breach the walls of your castles, where you can always be waiting for them.

[Boron]

@ Graeme : If the Devils are buffed with Storm Warriors or Gaias Blessing and Mass Regeneration they survive some time even during Wrathful Skies .
If they also get Weapons of Sharpness they are very good .

Against 350 Devils as Chazar describes a few false horrors won't be enough to hold them off .

100 Mech men and a few mages will probably win , 100 Storm demons maybe also .

How would you protect a SC to say he will survive vs. 50 devils surrounding him and buffed by weapons of sharpness ?
With their 18 + exp attack skill they have good chances to score a few hits even on AQs , probably 2-3 a turn . Even 30 protection get halfed because of the ap so it would be 15 prot + 2d6 vs. 21 devil trident damage + 2d6 damage roll .

I have seen a charcoil shield , jade armor , blood thorn , pendant of luck and amulet of antimagic resistence AQ get killed by such devils easily in one of my recent games .

Without unique items how would you equip your mass produced AQ vs. devils ?

[Graeme Dice]

Boron said:
If they also get Weapons of Sharpness they are very good .

True, but even then they can't hit ethereal or mistformed troops very well.

Against 350 Devils as Chazar describes a few false horrors won't be enough to hold them off.

Who said anything about a few false horrors? Send in 20 seraphs, and you'll have 40 a turn.

100 Mech men and a few mages will probably win , 100 Storm demons maybe also.

Both of those are huge gem investments. 20 Seraphs is 2000 gold and lost research at what sounds like the stage of the game where research is just about over.

How would you protect a SC to say he will survive vs. 50 devils surrounding him and buffed by weapons of sharpness?

For an air queen.
Blood Thorn, Lucky Coin, Starshine Skullcap, Jade Armour, Antimagic Amulet, Ring of Regen. Cast mistform, mirror image, attack rear or closest.

Even 30 protection get halfed because of the ap so it would be 15 prot + 2d6 vs. 21 devil trident damage + 2d6 damage roll .

Each hit until a very large one occurs however, would only do 1 damage. He also hasn't said anything about weapons of sharpness or high-level earth magic, so It's probably not a factor.

Without unique items how would you equip your mass produced AQ vs. devils ?

Mass produced Air Queens? I'm trying to limit this to the situation described by the original poster, not imaginary situations. Basically, you need luck, lifedrain, quickness, and regeneration. You also want a storm. If it was ice devils vs. normal devils, then the equipment loadout is quite different.

There it would be: Blood Thorn, Lucky Coin, Robe of Shadows, Flying Boots, Antimagic Amulet, Ring of Regen.

Of course, this assumes that no battlefield magic is being used, in which case, you'll have to use different tactics.

[Huzurdaddi]

Against devils the standard tactic is a prot 26+ SC for tanking and a wraithful skies capable caster far behind. Further a Prot 26+ tank with some serious weapons ( ember? ) can kill almost any number of devils even without the wrathful.

*If* the devils have weapons of sharpness prot will not work as well. Actually devils with weapons of sharpness are particularly hard to take on but they are rarely seen. However I just tested an SC with 30 prot and a life drain weapon against 100 devils and the SC still wins ( weird I would not have expected that ).

With Caelum your options open up from the standard tactics. But all anti-devil tactics ( except for massive prot SC's ) start with the Staff of Storms and wrathful skies. The false horror spam is a standard with Caelum.

[Taqwus]

Bait them into a province and then spam Murdering Winter. Unless they're moving magically, you'll hit them before they move.

[Endoperez]

Depending on who/what is leading them, you might try to kill those commanders and then force the whole army to retreat to nothingness in you territory. However, I don't think simple Seeking Arrows will be enough...

[Boron]

Graeme Dice said:

True, but even then they can't hit ethereal or mistformed troops very well.

Who said anything about a few false horrors? Send in 20 seraphs, and you'll have 40 a turn.

Both of those are huge gem investments. 20 Seraphs is 2000 gold and lost research at what sounds like the stage of the game where research is just about over.

With 20 Seraphs there is the problem of rain of stones and earthquake though . The tartarian cyclops has always 2A 3E as magic . He could easily do rain of stones , weapons of sharpness with earthboots , earthquake , petrify , legions of steel , strength of giants .

The game seems to be in the stage where Tartarians are commonly available . 700 devils alone cost 4900 blood when summoned or 1500-2000 when generated by 25 soul contracts forged with or without hammers .

My guess would be that the game is at turn 50-70 .

I fully agree with etheral + mistform + luck . There something like devil thugs with moon blades would probably be needed

[quote]
Graeme Dice said:

Boron said:

Mass produced Air Queens? I'm trying to limit this to the situation described by the original poster, not imaginary situations. Basically, you need luck, lifedrain, quickness, and regeneration. You also want a storm. If it was ice devils vs. normal devils, then the equipment loadout is quite different.

There it would be: Blood Thorn, Lucky Coin, Robe of Shadows, Flying Boots, Antimagic Amulet, Ring of Regen.

Of course, this assumes that no battlefield magic is being used, in which case, you'll have to use different tactics.

Yeah etheralness is one of the most important skills for an anti-troop SC imo . Without stuff like Elephants or other good tramplers can kill your SC luckily also .

I am tensed at which turn Chazars game is if it is >60 then mass produced AQs could be soon a reality

[Graeme Dice]

Endoperez said:
Depending on who/what is leading them, you might try to kill those commanders and then force the whole army to retreat to nothingness in you territory.

Iron dragons are also very good at killing devils, if you have the earth magic for it.

[Huzurdaddi]

Graeme Dice said:

Iron dragons are also very good at killing devils, if you have the earth magic for it.

What is actually good at killing devils ( and I can not for the life of me figure out why ) is ghost riders.

I have no idea why they work but 8 castings will kill about 120 devils. Quite a bargin.

Again: I have no idea why. From the stats you would think that the longdead would not even be able to hit.

[Turin]

it´s the charge bonus of the lance, those riders are really insane.