AI Questions

[NTJedi]

Gandalf Parker said:
Thats kindof unfair. The AI does have strategy.

Actually the AI does NOT have strategy in most of the listings I mentioned. So let's review:
The current AI has no strategies for blesses = TRUE
The current AI has no strategies for supercombatants = TRUE
The current AI has no strategies for the death arena = TRUE
The current AI has no strategies for the trading = TRUE
The current AI has no strategies for diplomacy = TRUE
The current AI has no strategies for the food supply = TRUE

Gandalf Parker said:
If you look at the logs it does quite abit of thinking.

The only questionable AI thinking is just enough to keep it alive and growing. Its strategy in regards to expansion is the same as an amoeba. Its strategy in regards to research doesn't appear to have any organized plan, seems almost random and usually does poor in the graphs compared to humans. Its strategy in regards to map defense mainly consists of building forts and poorly invests in province defence. Its strategy in regards to gold income is also poor as it blindly purchases units from independent provinces.
Overall the AI is still good for two developers.

Gandalf Parker said:
The biggest problem with it is that it only has one strategy which it uses for every nation being played in every manner. So I have always said that scripted AIs would be great. But it looks like we wont be getting it in Dominions.

Yes a scriptable AI which randomly uses one of many AI personalities would have been best.

[NTJedi]

Gandalf Parker said:
But it does have features that can be worked with to improve it. Since we arent going to get extensive rewrites we might as well work with those or toss all of it.

True... the #startspell would greatly improve the AI, if it eventually gets fixed.

[Gandalf Parker]

The current AI has no strategies for blesses = TRUE
probably true
The current AI has no strategies for supercombatants = TRUE
wrong
The current AI has no strategies for the death arena = TRUE
wrong
The current AI has no strategies for the trading = TRUE]
true
The current AI has no strategies for diplomacy = TRUE
true
The current AI has no strategies for the food supply = TRUE
wrong

and wishing for a #startspell is a little bit more likely than wishing for scripted AI but its still not as good an effort as using the AI's abilities better.

[NTJedi]

Gandalf Parker said:
The current AI has no strategies for blesses = TRUE
probably true
The current AI has no strategies for supercombatants = TRUE
wrong
The current AI has no strategies for the death arena = TRUE
wrong
The current AI has no strategies for the trading = TRUE]
true
The current AI has no strategies for diplomacy = TRUE
true
The current AI has no strategies for the food supply = TRUE
wrong

You'll need to elaborate with details of evidence. Otherwise you're just spitting out a fish story as I can easily provide details as why my statements are true. As for its death arena strategy... it selects one of its largest sized units which does more damage as it will blindly send its large sized pretenders to a stupid death.
Just because the AI is able to participate with the death arena does NOT make it a strategy!

Gandalf Parker said:
and wishing for a #startspell is a little bit more likely than wishing for scripted AI but its still not as good an effort as using the AI's abilities better.

I would definitely want scripted AI over the #startspell.


[/quote]

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Good grief. Listen to _yourself_, people.

The way Jedi and Gandalf are arguing will clearly go nowhere. Step back, think it over, and approach it again with a plan, or step away from the keyboard.

[Gandalf Parker]

NTJedi said:
You'll need to elaborate with details of evidence. Otherwise you're just spitting out a fish story as I can easily provide details as why my statements are true. As for its death arena strategy... it selects one of its largest sized units which does more damage as it will blindly send its large sized pretenders to a stupid death.
Just because the AI is able to participate with the death arena does NOT make it a strategy!

The AI does create equipment and give it to its commanders. Maybe you could come up with something better (Ive asked for it many times and havent seen it but Im sure someone could). At the moment it appears fairly random, but it is there.

And the AI obviously takes food supply in consideration when it builds armies and sends them out. Ive rarely seen it starve its armies unless its been forced back into it.

Your evidence is that the single-minded AI strategy is easily beaten by human players. Not that it doesnt exist. You are complaining that a 10-line strategy should be a hundred-line strategy.

I would definitely want scripted AI over the #startspell.

[/quote]
You didnt get my point. The #startspell MIGHT be something we MIGHT see fixed. The AI is awfully unlikely. Sing the song over and over if you want but I will look to fixable areas. There are ways to improve the AI that do not involve waiting on the devs, and I have laid them out often enough.

[Sombre]

I've never seen the AI consider supplies. It marches huge armies through multiple wasteland provinces as a matter of routine.

The evidence for this is pretty clear if you play on a large map. Look over the troops in the AI horde that just arrived at your borders. If there are low supply provinces between the AI forts and your border, they will usually be starving and diseased.

In regard to equipment, saying 'the AI is there' is pointless. If you had one AI set to build and assign items totally at random and one AI using the current system, could anyone tell the difference? I doubt it. The only way to judge an AI is the impression it gives human players. It doesn't matter if it thinks about it or does it at random if no-one can tell the difference.

[NTJedi]

Gandalf Parker said:
The AI does create equipment and give it to its commanders.

Just because the AI is able to place equipment onto commanders does not make it a supercombatant strategy. It's the same as being able to eat and being able to eat healthy... both are very different.

Gandalf Parker said:
Maybe you could come up with something better (Ive asked for it many times and havent seen it but Im sure someone could). At the moment it appears fairly random, but it is there.

Something better won't be seen unless Illwinter hires an extra developer or two which focuses purely on artificial intelligence OR if AI scripting becomes available.

Gandalf Parker said:
And the AI obviously takes food supply in consideration when it builds armies and sends them out. Ive rarely seen it starve its armies unless its been forced back into it.

I agree with Sombre and frequently see the AI starving its troops. Perhaps you don't examine units on the battlefield as closely as Sombre and I. It builds armies and will march 500+ unit armies straight into a small wasteland or swamp province. These armies are usually all traveling different directions which is why we'll see one province with 500+ units and the next turn it splits different ways.

Gandalf Parker said:
Your evidence is that the single-minded AI strategy is easily beaten by human players. Not that it doesnt exist. You are complaining that a 10-line strategy should be a hundred-line strategy.

As I wrote earlier just because the AI is able to participate in the death match arena does NOT make it a strategized participation in the death match arena. Doing something and doing something with a strategy are two different things.

Gandalf Parker said:
There are ways to improve the AI that do not involve waiting on the devs, and I have laid them out often enough.

The veterans with 1000+ posts in the Dominions forums are all aware of the ways for improving the challenge from AI opponents. We all know what might be fixed and what will not be fixed.

[Wikd Thots]

Pttthhh!
The veterans still have not made us a decent AI nation. They whine over and over about the same things. They wait for the devs to completely rewrite the game. You all sound like corner fanatics praying for the second coming.

If the things that the AI does and does not do is so plain to the veterans then why don't they fix it? I hate to say it but the only tips on improving the AI that I can use is crap that I have seen in posts by gandolf and ballbarian and others like them.

[Evil Dave]

Wikd Thots said:
If the things that the AI does and does not do is so plain to the veterans then why don't they fix it? I hate to say it but the only tips on improving the AI that I can use is crap that I have seen in posts by gandolf and ballbarian and others like them.

Other than making better pretenders for the AI, there isn't much players can do for it. The AI doesn't understand how to build an SC or play a coherent strategy. We would need for the Devs to make changes in the game, either getting better AI or giving us tools by which we can control or hint to the AI what it should be doing.

It may (and let me emphasize *may*) be possible to gain some control over the AI by hacking the .2h files, but if it is possible it's not just a few days work.