Apache helicopter countermeasure

[DRG]

....and make a juicy target for the Helo.........

[Imp]

AAguns are one of those units I do adjust the range on if attack helicopters are around.
Reduce it so when its your turn you can take several shots at it when they run rather than just 1 or 2 at near max range.
Note units armed with SAM & AA gun like the Tungaska Y key only effects the gun SAMs still fire normally so don't give up much versus planes.

[Suhiir]

I use attack helos a LOT so I keep 2x Ammo Truck in rear and have em fly back to resupply.
Two resupplies faster then one after all.

[Mobhack]

That's another anti-helo measure for PBEM with humans.

If the enemy helos always seem to be going back behind hil 222 and reappearing near there a few turns later, stonk the rear of hill 222 with arty...

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I'm going to "pick up the baton and run with it" concerning the RPG versus the helicopter.

This is not an invitation to advocate we do this in the game for anyone, but ONLY to demonstrate how "CHANCE" intervenes in military operations and even in this game as has been discussed MANY TIMES over the years.

I will use three case studies by way of example and provide the known culprit for at least two of those operations and the likely one for the first one mostly due to the date of the incident.

The "Culprit":
http://www.military-today.com/firearms/rpg_7.htm

"BLACK HAWK Down" with two shootdowns by RPG's. This is probably more personal to me as I was serving at this time and was involved in the "ratcheting up" as events progressed in planning.
https://www.shadowspear.com/2009/04/...othic-serpent/
:/https/www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2018/10/02/the-battle-of-mogadishu-25-years-later-how-the-fateful-fight-changed-combat-operations/
https://history.army.mil/news/2015/150400a_asom.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMMGQxEqpOI

Operation Red Wing: One shootdown by RPG-7 confirmed. Simply not how I wanted to remember my 49th Birthday and that it was the worst day for Naval Special Warfare (NSW) personnel since D-Day. This of course lead to the book and movie "Lone Survivor". If you know the story sometimes not all the "bad guys" are bad guys.
https://special-ops.org/operation-re...us-navy-seals/

Extortion 17: One shootdown by 3 RPG-7's confirmed. 1st shot-missed./2nd shot-kill shot/3rd-not mentioned. Unfortunately the "Sports World" isn't the only place "records are broken" as what happened to Extortion 17, would eclipse "Operation Red Wing" for the NSW Community. It's still their worst to date.
https://www.history.com/news/the-cos...am-six-history
https://www.newsweek.com/extortion-1...s-names-657841

Maybe we should be thankful we can't use them that way. But the common theme here as unfortunate as it is, they where troop transport helos and in the case of Operation Red Wing outran their APACHE escorts in the attempt to save the team on the ground.

Some people run to the fire and others wait for the fire trucks.

I never considered doing that with artillery but then neither has the AI in my experience.

Player vs. Player that might have some advantages there.

Regards,
Pat

[Mobhack]

If helos get close enough to infantry they can fire at them - assume that if the infantry fire does a lot of damage that an RPG may have been part of the response.

It has also been a while, but I seem to recollect that a landed chopper is a soft target like a truck for ground weapons. So an RPG team if in range could splat such as it is landing troops. But if landing infantry inside RPG range of defenders, something has gone pear-shaped anyway for the choppers..

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Andy I do believe you are correct. I seem to remember working an APACHE LONGBOW (AH-64D) behind enemy lines on a scouting and interdiction op. It had taken some light ground fire that was starting to suppress the crew, so I figured that while I still had "control" of it I'd find a safe place to set it down.

I took a couple of turns to bring the "morale" up on the crew which worked. I remember that after being on the ground for 3 to 4 turns, it'd be ready to lift off again with enough ammo left to extract it via "terrain masking" back to my lines and resupply on my next turn.

Well the AI had other ideas, on it's intervening turn when from across the clearing comes an ATGW, as they say "So much for the plans of Mice and Men". Obviously an ATGW Team moving forward to join the main battle just happened upon the clearing with this beautiful target just sitting there.

CHANCE don't we talk about that a lot out here?

I really believe and act upon that belief, when you're operating with more than a couple of troop carrying helos, you should (I do.) seriously give thought to getting yourself at least one or better a pair of Armed Scout or AH helos to lead the way and find a path through. Also once you land your assault troops they have some added "organic" fire support for as long as they can stay on station.

I've harped on this for many many years now, but, all those assets will be wasted if the player cannot be patient enough to "terrain mask" those helos for as long as possible until they arrive at the "LZ" to start your mission.

Nothing is achieved easily without you being willing to work hard in achieving your goal. Terrain masking can be hard work, it's time consuming and it requires you to "remember where you've been to get where you want to go", if you follow my meaning here.

But that's RL/RW tactics that have proven their worth over decades of combat helicopter operations.

Alright might get some tank news in or I just might sit on my donkey and enjoy the my weekend, only time will tell.

Artillery on the backside of a hill against helos, really, I might have to target one I know is lurking there, who knows I might even hit something of value if CHANCE allows like the AI HQ group!!

Good Night!!

Regards,
Pat

[Felix Nephthys]

Originally Posted by Mobhack

If helos get close enough to infantry they can fire at them - assume that if the infantry fire does a lot of damage that an RPG may have been part of the response.

It has also been a while, but I seem to recollect that a landed chopper is a soft target like a truck for ground weapons. So an RPG team if in range could splat such as it is landing troops. But if landing infantry inside RPG range of defenders, something has gone pear-shaped anyway for the choppers..

It seems that for an RPG shot against a helicopter it does in fact have to be landed, otherwise the RPG unit will only fire their rifles or machine gun at it.

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

Artillery on the backside of a hill against helos, really, I might have to target one I know is lurking there, who knows I might even hit something of value if CHANCE allows like the AI HQ group!!

I use this vs the AI a lot.

I put my attack helos behind a hill or in a clearing in woods at low altitude then "pop up" to high altitude and fire (the elevation change doesn't seem to effect the ROF). After doing this for two turns I relocate somewhere at least 6 hexes away from the previous location staying out of LOS if at all possible. The AI, not having seen the helo relocate will often fire mortars/artillery at the previous location allowing my off-board artillery/MLRS to counter-battery or me to plot on-board mortars wherever the smoke puffs from firing appear.

[Roman]

I have already tried with Tunguska and Pantsyr which have EW 8 and 9. The Apache has EW 8.