OT: A Nuclear North Korea

[AMF]

Atrocities said:

So I ask you to please keep your hatred of Bush out of the discussion and remember that it is Kim Jong-il who bares all of the blame here. If you want to Bush bash please start your own thread.

AT,

My point is simply this: Bush chose to do nothing regarding the DPRK. At the very least he should have engaged them diplomatically, as they respond to it (albeit not as much as we would like). "Let's do nothing and hope they don't get the bomb even though we call them evil and they say they're working towards a bomb" is NOT a mature, or even reasonable strategy. To say Bush doesn't bear some responsiblity for this is just ill informed wishful thinking arm chair diplomacy.

My "hatred" of Bush has nothing to do with my point. Just as your love of him has nothing to do with this either. I'm calling a spade a spade. Don't 'ad hominem' me. And don't censor me either, you're the one who started this OT thread.

[AMF]

Atrocities said:
When we start pointing fingers after the fact, even though they are valid points, it detracts from the dicussion about what too do now. And that, WHAT TO DO NOW, is what the thread is about.

Ah. Now I see what you're saying.

If this thread is SOLELY about what to do re: the DPRK bomb now that they have it, the answer is probably "not too darn much".

[Randallw]

God knows you guys have every right to be angry and hateful of the man

sorry, but I was the other way.

[Atrocities]

Ooops.. Sorry Randall. I shall rephase it.

AMF I am not attacking you or otherwise arguing your points. I have no desire to "sensor" you or your opinion. As I said you have every right to point out the past facts and such, but I ask the people who take the time to read this thread not to dwell on past mistakes and or political choices but rather to focus on what to do now. So I ask of you to please respect my request and to not poison the well by focusing more so than not on the blame game. What is done is done, lets talk about what we can do now and in the future.

[AMF]

Ok, my apologies for taking umbrage too quickly.

[geoschmo]

The US has no military options, and frankly NK knows this or they wouldn't have taken this step. We've been bled dry in Iraq and Afghanistan. Our reserves in manpower and materiel have been depleted to the point where I'm not even sure we could sustain a long term conventional air campaign. Our only option that will have any effect is the tacNukes and that has political side effects which are incalculable.

As distastful as it sounds, I think we've reached the point where the only military option, if we think the non-military options are gone, is to basically give China a permission slip to annex North Korea. North Korea survives at their pleasure as it is now. I can't imagine the people of North Korea could be any worse off as an official part of China than they are now.

Edit: Of course this assumes that China would be interested in taking such action. My gut tells me they might if they had assurances from the international community there would be no repercussions.

[StarShadow]

Non-Military options? Since the whole thing started NK only wanted to talk with the US, not a group of 5 or 6 countries, just the US. According to all the news reports early on, NK just wanted a non-agression treaty with the US, it wouldn't have hurt anything for the US to discuss that with them and possibly reach some kind of agreement.

[Possum]

Folks, make no mistake. This is not a minor issue.

I'm a dove, FFS. I was against the invasion of Iraq. I vote 3rd party, even if I am an NRA member.

But North Korea with nuclear weapons is serious potential for armageddon. They will use them or they will sell them to those who will.

Screw Iraq, and screw Afghanistan, and screw the UN too, if they won't stop dithering and act. This situation demands action, and it demands action right now.

Now we find out once and for all whether or not Bushboy Junior has any stones. His daddy did. Ronnie Reagan had a big ol' hairy pair.

And somewhere the shade of Douglas Macarthur is shouting, "WAKE UP, YOU FOOLS, WAKE UP!"

[Thermodyne]

Atrocities said:
Wow! I guess the world didn’t see this one coming. Sarcasm aside, this is one nation that ought not have the bomb. Why do I say this, well it is my sincere belief that the leaders of North Korea, specifically Kim Jong-il, are the kind of people that don’t care about the moral implications of having the bomb. This is evident by the fact that while his nation starves, they spend more and more money on armament.





I firmly believe that Kim Jong-il will sell either the technology, a weapon, or God fearing both, to any one who will pay. Those among his client list would most assuredly be terrorist groups and or nations. (Iran for one)

I believe that neither Clinton nor Bush is directly to blame for this, both did what they thought was right given the information at hand at the time. Clinton was lied too, and Bush simply can’t abide a lair. As far as the blame game goes, at least for this thread, the blame for North Korea having nukes rest squarely around the neck of Kim Jong-il himself. The guy is simply a slimly sneaky lying weasel out to boost his own ego and pocket book at the expense of his nation and people.

Now that North Korea has the capability to make nuclear weapons, what should the world community do about it?

Edit:
For the purpose of this thread I ask that those who choose to participate please focus on the question of what to do next now that North Korea has the bomb. I am sorry that I did not make this distinction sooner. Thank you.

The US should take the opportunity to impose a maritime quarantine on North Korea. We should also remove all US personnel from South Korea, making it known to all that the defense of the south will be a nuclear counter strike on the north. Compared to a garrison force, it is a lot less expensive to target a few SLCM at the north. We should then compel the Chinese to bring the issue to a close; they are after all the ones who made the problem in the first place. I would think that a little “Chinese Inspection” of their imports to America would be incentive enough for them to act. As an additional incentive, we could begin talks with the democratic nations of the region on the issue of providing them with nuclear deterrents of their own. Only nations that could rapidly build their own weapons would ever be actually considered, but that would be kept private.

[ToddT]

Since the whole thing started? before i was born, neclaera weapons capabilty probly last 10 years, anything truly viable, right now not very. as for the non-aggresion treaty. Technically North Korea and South Korea are still at war just having a very long running cease fire. Part of the non aggression treaty would most likely require US to leave south Korea. Both Koreas would like reunifiction. Catch, under very different terms. How long would south Korean military survive on its own? remember North Korea wants a non aggression treaty with US not South Korea.
I believe part of the reason for the nuke test was the failure of thier long range missile test.
The Korean situation has been a mess for decades, Kim il, has being milking it for his ends for a good part of that time. He portays the US as the "boogey man" that he is protecting his people from (come to think of it Suddam started doing the same thing) So how much do you really think he wanted that to change, maybe nough to comfort himself, but I doubt much beyond that, well possibly staged internal proganda. The people have a radio in thier houses that runs 24/7 one station.
And Remeber the N. Korea has basicly said We want Talks an NA or else. They have for most part bargained with threats.

The whole is just one large festering mess.
And as bad as things are now if N.K falls (no matter how) it will be a humanitarian disaster, something South Korea fears since it will most like bear the brunt of that fall out as well.