Battlestar Galactica **Spoilers** discussion

[EvilGenius4ABetterTomorro]

Yeah, in the original episodes the hanger bay catches fire and it takes a little over 1/2 the episode until Commander Alpo (420 dog years old)suddenly realizes the best fire fighting tactic is to utilize the vacuum of space to put out the fires (duh) Too bad little Boxey and the Monkey/Robot/Dog thing weren't in the same hanger bay.
And there was a super fast recon Viper that was fitted with boosters (but no weapons) and was controlled by a sassy sexy computer C.O.R.A. that had the hots for Starbuck.

Battle Barge Collapsica Rules!

[geoschmo]

I remember the modified viper, but that's not what I am thinking about. I have this fairly clear memory of one of the vipers sticking it's gun in the nose hole of the other and pushing it backwards. It might have been in the comic, or for that matter maybe it was something my friends and I came up with playing with our model vipers.

Geoschmo

[Starhawk]

Personally I was more pissed about Boomer being a Cylon just because I liked her :-( I mean hey they made her likeable and a carring character just to have her turn out to be a killing machine.
I do hope if there is a series they don't have to kill her because she seems like a good motherly character for boxy and they'd kinda need one of those in such a grim series.

I liked the Viper Mark 7s too I mean I know in part two we didn't get to see as many and in the series we will probobly get to see only a handful. But still I like the way they mixed the Ultra Modern Viper 7s with the older looking Viper 2s.

I also like the fact that they've done away with those high pitched whiney bLasters that the ships and warriors held and replaced the ships guns with uber flak batteries. And the "soldiers" guns with those things that look like they fire mini high explosive rockets.

[Atrocities]

I have a couple of old cylon figures, one large cylon figure, one large colonial figure, one cylon radier toy fighter, and a BSG movie poster. I found them while I was moving. I wonder what they are worth to a collector. Forget Ebay, man that place is impossible now. And expensive to.

Any offers?

[Atrocities]

Originally posted by geoschmo:

quote:

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Originally posted by Atrocities:
I will never buy the story line about the cylons being made by man although it is key to the story. I like the concept that another race built the cylons and that the cylons killed that race before coming after humanity. That to me was a much better story idea then this Blade Runner & Screemers rip off.

I respectfully disagree. The motivation for the Cylons causing them to try so hard to completely eradicate the human race was one of the weaknesses in my mind of the original series. It never seemed to make sense why they would hate them so much just because they interfered in some war. The Cylons being made by man gives them more depth and personality.

Not familer with Screemers, but I don't see this as derivative of Blade Runner at all. Mainly the difference is one of degree. To me Blade Runner is more of a metaphor for the racial tensions we experience between different Groups of humans. The Robots there are playing the part of a disenfranchised minority group lashing out against the oppresive moajority power structure. You might get yourself killed by a psychotic robot on an individual basis if you were unlucky, but they were no threat to the species as a whole. The fact that they are robots isn't really central to the theme in Blade Runner in my mind. It's coloring instead of the substance of the story. You could replace the robots in Blade Runner with the minority racial, religious or ethnic group of your choice and the story would be just as relevent and compelling.

The Cylons in this form on the other hand represent our dependance on technology unleashed come back to haunt us. They represent a real threat to the entire human species, much more then the robots in Blade Runner did. In my mind it's more comparative to The Stand or Terminator.

Geoschmo

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To me human made robots that now look like humans who want to kill humanity has just been done to death.

The cylons are aliens, why they hate the colonials is irrelivant to the fact that they simply do. Why would any alien race hate another?

My point is that point of the story could have been explored in more depth than simply opting for a hollywood cookie cutter Version of man makes robots then robots want to kill man.

Come on.... Terminator, Screamers, Blade Runner, Alien, The Twilite Zone, The Outer Limits, and many many more have just beaten this concept into the ground.

The best writers who write the best shows tackel the difficult parts of the story and make them work for the story. Those who just want to get it done use the cookie cutter.

Now I am not saying Moore is a bad writer, he is quite gifted and I admire him emensly for his work, but I simply wish he would have choosen a differant route. I don't think it would have taken from the story, but rather added more depth. Why do the cylons hate us so. Why do the cylons want to be like us, why why why?

For Example:
"God did not create the cyclons, the Cylonian race did, and they paid for it with their lives. Now humanity must pay the price for the Cylonians mistakes?"

"Humanity shares many of the flaws that the Cylonians had. Maybe that is why the Cylons are anhilating us."
"Your right, we do, we have emotions. We are alive and not manufactured in some assembly line. We have a soul, and that is something the Cylons will never understand. We have the capicity to expand beyond what we have become, to be more. The Cylons have no concept of this, no emotions, no feelings, and no soul. This is why they are attacking us. We are living beings and they are machines simply programed to kill."

"Have you considered that you are wrong about the Cylons Adama?"
"How so?"
"It seems to me that a race that has dedicated itself the enihilation of humanity must understand emotion, especially the emotion of hatred. And if they have the capicity to feel hatred, then they to must have a soul."

[ December 11, 2003, 06:34: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

[Fyron]

I should point out that Bladerunner had artificially cloned, designed, and grown humans, not robots.

[Atrocities]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
I should point out that Bladerunner had artificially cloned, designed, and grown humans, not robots.

And the human cylons are.......... not robots.

[Fyron]

Robots can certainly be human-looking. Read Asimov.

[Starhawk]

Well Atrocities you are partially right that holywood has done the "Man makes machine now machine wants to kill man" part but completely wrong about the cookie cutter part.

Normally holywood has man win, BSG had mankind lose and lose everything to boot. There is nothing left of humanity as far as the Colonials go except for 52,000 people.
Another thing about the new BSG is thay they show quite clearly (unlike many others) WHY The machines want to kill man. Most Sci-Fi leaves it as well they want yo kill us because we made them sort of story. The Cylons want to kill us because what they think we did to them, and in some ways the New BSG shows that Humanity almost (note almost not fully) deserved what they got in the end because not only did they create these creatures and then effectively enslave them they fought a war and forgot all the lessons they learned there and it cost them everything in the end.


And BTW Alien wasn't robots man made it was ALIENS that man wanted to turn into a weapon of war but never got the chance....oy.

Bladerunner were not Robots Cylons are and you could easily understand why the Blade runner clones wanted to kill man I would too if I were them...

Twilight Zone was the First to do it the Original Outer Limits just ripped them off.

The NEW Outer Limits made Everything kill man and they always made it mans fault and always made it that Humanity had some how fugged up and deserved to die....basically your talking about a series that ENDED with the death of all that was left of Humanity even though they were trying to recover and become more noble and good.

The whole point of the New Outer Limits is taht man should die and women should rule the friggin universe because it would be better that way. T he ONLY shows where Humanity lived on in hope was when some woman led the way and smacked all us warmongering men upside our collective evil heads and made us good.

I mean hell in the Last ep it was a guy who blew up the remnants of the world while all miss noble woman tried to rescue the world from death.

The New OUter limits was basically just a feminist POS that I wouldn't even make refference to as good story writing.

[ December 11, 2003, 07:39: Message edited by: Starhawk ]

[Atrocities]

I sense a bit of hostility coming from you Starhawk.

And BTW Alien wasn't robots man made it was ALIENS that man wanted to turn into a weapon of war but never got the chance....oy

To many times people take what is typed as literial. I don't recall the "synthetic" humans name that went off on the crew. The point is he went off on the crew.

And what is this crap that Baltar has a chip in his head. Hummm, where have we seen this before??? *Caugh* Farscape.

And the cookie cutter theory is sound. The premis is the same, man makes machine, and now machine wants to kill man. The fact that they changed the out come is utterly pointless here. The basic structure of the story is man made machines that now have come back to kill them. The out come of the story is like adding stuff to the cookie doe.

And Starhawk I have to disagree with you about them explaining why the cylons hate them. That was very vague here and in the original series. More so here because we are only two episodes into the mini series. What we do know is that man made a "Chrome Toaster" that then turned on them. They had no idea why. In fact they NEVER said why they turned on them. Humanities Children Have Come Home is just not going to cut it for why the Cylons hate man. They will need to do better.

About blade runner, again it is the same cookie cutter, albeit the cookie cutter that has been used more often then any other. Human made "machines" who look human being used as slaves and developing a soul then choose to no longer be slaves and turn on those who have created them. Again you assume that the cookie cutter has changed when it has not. The ingredants, the story, has. So what if they are synethetic, robotic, machines, liquid metal, clones, cyborgs, the point is, the cookie cutter has been used to death. (PEIROD) The ingreadiants have changed in the doe, but the overall cookie still looks like so many others that have come before it.

And frankly the New Outerlimits lost any sense of direction years ago. So I have not been following it. I would rather watch Stargate.

[ December 11, 2003, 11:08: Message edited by: Atrocities ]