Strange Agoraphobic AI - Page 2

Loser · #11 February 26th, 2004, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Baron Munchausen:
Effectively, you will have a new racial trait -- 'expansionist' -- which you assign or remove by the use of Attack ships in their build lists. A 'normal' AI is effectively expansionist, while AIs without the exploring ships are not.

Actually, I think the trait is more on the other side, and I would call it Hesitant. The AI is not willing to step through any Warp Point until it knows what is on the other side. Even seeing a ship come through is not good enough, they have to be given a picture of hte other side.

I think I'd like to see some decent AIs set up this way, sort of Neutral++. They'd need a different tech progression in addition to different ship designs. I mean, they're still weak, but if you're going to play with Neutrals anyway, might as well make them a little more interesting.

Litcube · #12 February 26th, 2004, 10:21 PM

So your plan is to replace the current neutral AIs with agorophibic AIs?

Loser · #13 February 26th, 2004, 10:33 PM

No, in that mod I will probably never produce I am replacing the Neutrals with 'minor races' who will have some of the aspects of the player races, in that some special technologies can be trade or taken from them that would otherwise only be available form a player race. They can also be Uplifted, if a player race trades them the right techs, and minor races will be able to leave their systems, once they get ships.

I'm planning on using your agoraphobes as Space Monsters.

Loser · #14 February 27th, 2004, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Krsqk:
AIs only explore using designs designated as attack ships; no other types will use unexplored warp points.

Whoa, does this mean that if I build an AI and give them only Colony ships they will colonize the freak out of their homes system but not ever step outside?

That's great. I know exactly what to do with that.

What if I don't give them Attack Ships, but instead Boarding and Kamakazi Ships with attack-style designs?

Would this allow them to have an agressive and built up fleet wihtout ever making it out of their home system?

If they are given star charts, assuming they accept, will they follow those charts out of their home system and expand along the given route?

There is so much possibility here. If this works it means I can have a Bottled Demon AI. Don't let them out!

[edit] What about Carriers or Drone Carriers or Sat Layers? Do these explore while the AI is in any mode?

[ February 26, 2004, 13:25: Message edited by: Loser ]

Krsqk · #15 February 27th, 2004, 02:58 AM

Now that I think about it, Carrier designs may explore as well.

The main concern with building a ship-heavy "Hesitant" race is maintenance--you'd need some sort of special economic tech to allow them to build masses of ships. And drones. Drones would be great--lots and lots of drones all over the place. Of course, they'd all be gone after the first battle, but what a battle that would be!

Rollo · #16 February 27th, 2004, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Krsqk:
...AIs only explore using designs designated as attack ships; no other types will use unexplored warp points...

that's not true. I cannot recall for all the individual design types (boarding, kamikaze, carrier, etc.), but two things I know for sure:
1) fleets will explore (regardless of the design types included)
2) attack bases will explore

In fact the attack base design types are great for exploring, since they are not included into fleets and wander off alone. Scout ship designs using the attack base design type can help the AI explore and expand.

Rollo · #17 February 27th, 2004, 11:17 PM

Loser - I like your idea for the bottled demon AI. Some testing regarding boarding ships, carriers and kamikaze ships needs to be done. In any case you'll want to use a high number of turns that the AI doesn't use fleets. So the AI will not venture out for, say, the first 100 turns.

[ February 27, 2004, 21:19: Message edited by: Rollo ]

Loser · #18 February 27th, 2004, 11:41 PM

While I like the 'keep hem bottled up then let them out' idea for a lot of other settings, for that mod that I will probably never produce I would need the buggers to stay put until someone takes action to get them out. And even then I'd like to have it possible to avoid them, mostly.

Since fleets will explore, I guess that means no fleets for this AI. As inconvenient as that sounds, it should be okay, as each of their ships will approximate SE IV godhood in every way that can be done. This AI/empire/specialized-racial-tech combination is not meant to be beaten, just avoided. Here There Be Dragons.

Even if Colony Ships are the only ships that don't explore this little idea is more full-bodied than it was before, as they can at least fill out their home system now, and are still intimidating even if they use only Fighters and Drones.

[ February 27, 2004, 21:43: Message edited by: Loser ]

Rollo · #19 February 27th, 2004, 11:58 PM

I did a quick hack with one of my AI and tested them.
Results:
1) Kamikaze and boarding ships do not explore on their own (when not part of a fleet), but sit on the homeworld.
2) Carriers, as Krsqk suspected, do explore.
3) Satellite layers are deploying sats on the warp points.

Loser · #20 February 28th, 2004, 12:22 AM

Thank you for looking into this Rollo.

If a Kamikaze or Boarding Ship is built on another world does it move to the homeworld?

If an invader enters the system will the Kamikaze or Boarding Ship move to engage?

Since Sat Layers work is it safe to assume that Mine Layers will work too?

What about Stellar Manipulation Ships? They will open additional Wrap Points, I assume, but will they explore them?

Again, Rollo, thank you for looking into this. With so many of the Old Guard AI designers missing it is gret that you still respond to inquiries like this.