AI late game Ship Designing problems (turns 100+)

[DirectorTsaarx]

HreDaak: I assume you've notified MM about this, er, "feature"? Sounds like something that needs to be patched...

Using just the roman numeral could also cause problems with the Torpedoes; or do Anti-Matter Torpedoes and Quantum Torpedoes get tracked differently? (If any AI uses those things)

LintMan: I hadn't bothered with making colony ships out of other hulls (yet); I wonder what would happen if one were to use transports to carry colony components... nice large starting population, at least. Anyway, I use fighter bays on lots of different hulls, which works quite well. One thing that MM has dropped between SE2 and SE3 & SE4 was making fighter bays take up more room on non-carrier hulls. IIRC, in SE2 a fighter bay took up 2 spaces on a carrier hull and 3 spaces on non-carrier hulls. I kinda liked that idea, but since I'm taking advantage of the change, I guess I like the new system too...

[SunDevil]

Two Questions:

1. What file did you edit?

2. Where and why did you put roman numerals next to the engine types.

Thanks.

[apache]

Wow, that is interesting info about the roman numerals on the engine designs. I have noticed, however, that it does not seem to affect the weapons and shields, and maybe some other miscellaneous techs that the AI uses. This is definitely something you should let MM know about.

[SunDevil]

Nevermind. Good work though, I'm glad you figured this out.

[SunDevil]

Nevermind. Good work though, I'm glad you figured this out.

[Baron Munchausen]

quote:

---

Originally posted by HreDaak:
That roman numeral has actually much more meaning than the fancy number on the icon.
It also tells AI which component in the family is better. This explains that late game design quirk. I changed those numerals on all engines so that the ion engines are 1-3, contra terrene engines 4-6, jacketed photon engines 7-9 and quantum engines 10-12.
Guess what, as soon as AI researched new engines all designs using engines were updated. No longer were those old colony ships stuck with the same old ion engine 3's.

Yippee!!!

---

Yargh!!

It can get really frustrating to run up against the literalistic behavior of computers all the time. I hope MM will go through the AI code carefully and add some more intelligent checks. I have already pointed out it will mechanically get "one of each" ability it has been given to include in a ship when there are components that integrate more than one ability. The AI will never be able to compete with humans if it doesn't become more flexible.


[This message has been edited by Baron Munchausen (edited 11 January 2001).]

[HreDaak]

extracted from the components.txt file

Name := Ion Engine I
Description := Standard Ion Engine for sub-light inter-system travel.
Pic Num := 9
Tonnage Space Taken := 10
Tonnage Structure := 20
Cost Minerals := 200
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 50
Vehicle Type := Ship
Supply Amount Used := 10
Restrictions := None
General Group := Engines
Family := 9
Roman Numeral := 1
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := Propulsion
Tech Level Req 1 := 1
Number of Abilities := 3
Ability 1 Type := Standard Ship Movement
Ability 1 Descr := Generates 1 standard movement.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 1
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Ability 2 Type := Supply Storage
Ability 2 Descr := Can store 500 units of supply.
Ability 2 Val 1 := 500
Ability 2 Val 2 := 0
Ability 3 Type := Movement Bonus
Ability 3 Descr :=
Ability 3 Val 1 := 0
Ability 3 Val 2 := 0
Weapon Type := None

Notice.. there is that roman numeral which appears on the ion engine I icon. All the engines are in the same family, number 9.
ion engines have roman numerals with numbers 1-3 as have all the other engine types too.
The AI does not know that the contra terrene engines are 'better' than ion engines so it
never bothers to redesign its designs when it researches these so called better engines.
This same problem applies to quatum reactor.
It has a roman numeral of 0. It is the only component in its family though but still the AI does not redesign its designs when quantum reactor is researched. I changed quantum reactors roman numeral to 1 and this fixed the problem.

Reason why you never see these problems with
weapons is that they are all from different
families and they all have roman numerals with bigger numbers on better weapons. So AI always upgrades its designs with weapons as soon as it researches them (if that family is called in the design in designCreation file).



[This message has been edited by HreDaak (edited 11 January 2001).]

[HreDaak]

Hmmh.. thinking about shields, i think i was partly in error in my Last post.

When the AI researches new components in the
same family it checks this new components roman numeral. If this roman numeral is bigger than the older Versions in this same family it starts its redesigning process on all those designs that have a call for this family. When it chooses what components to incorporate into these new designs it checks their tech levels. So the roman numerals are only used on checking when to start this redesigning process. What components to use in its new designs are based on their tech levels.

Example:

AI is using shield V's in its designs. It researches phased shield I's but because their roman numeral is smaller than shield V's it does not start redesigning process on those designs that have a call for shields
(it wont start it on any designs). Later in the game the AI researches ECM jammer II's.
Its roman numeral is bigger than ECM jammer I's so the AI starts its redesigning process
on designs that have a call for ECM jammer family. In this redesigning process the AI
will use its latest technology and for this it will check tech levels. So the brand new attack ship forexample will be redesigned with phased shield I's and ECM jammer II's.

[Mephisto]

As it seems the AI IS using the latest technology in its designs. But: The roman numericals are the reason why the AI does not call the ship design subroutine if a new component is researched.

[Eisenhans]

Why not solve the problem with the engines in the colony ships by giving the engines new roman numericals like that: ion engines 1 to 3, contra terrene engines 4 to 6, jacketed photon 7 to 9 and quantum 10 to 12.
The numericals can go up to twenty anyway.
It might not look nice to have a new designed kind of engine start with a high roman numerical (like contra terren engine IV for the first design of that type) but it should save the problem. Maybe some other problems could be solved like that as well.