dominions copy protection - Page 2

WraithLord · #11 October 13th, 2003, 04:23 PM

So long as software piracy is not dealt with seriously the various protections are no sweat to the expirienced hacker.
They, however, make life more difficult for the honest buyer

Pocus · #12 October 13th, 2003, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by johan osterman:
Perhaps, but it is to late to implement anything else now anyway.

sure, I can understand it was not even a low order priority for IW, when you started develop Doms, but software companies more and more integrate the fact that they should spend some tenth of percents (I mean 0.1 to 0.3% or more, in case my frenchglish is garbled) of they development time in coding protections which will slow down how the soft can be pirated.

In doms I, you could have in a matter of hours have at least encrypted your serial!

johan osterman · #13 October 13th, 2003, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by izaqyos:
So long as software piracy is not dealt with seriously the various protections are no sweat to the expirienced hacker.
They, however, make life more difficult for the honest buyer

I do not see how a cdkey you enter once makes your life difficult, but perhaps you have no arms and is forced to type with the tip of your nose. Should you enter into a multi player game where you have the same code cd key as another player one of you will get a stale turn, but at least one of the players with the same key has an illbegotten key. If you have a valid purchased key this is unlikely to happen however. There is far more cdkeys then there is likely to be games sold, meaning that chances are that keyes that are cracked are not likely to be the particular key you posess, and the chance that you come up against a multiplayer opponent with your particular key is even more miniscule. And should it happen, against all odds, I am sure we can work something out.

DominionsFan · #14 October 13th, 2003, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pocus:
True, but cdkeys reported to be pirated can be put on black list (Gal Civ, or windows XP). When several Users ask for the same patch, dozen of time, it is safe to think that something is amiss with this cdkey.

I think it is working like this:
Someone with a valid cdkey is downloading the updates, and hes putting it up to the net.
He cannot be found or reported of course.

Quote:

False. The updates which can be found are the major patches, which are delivered with a cd key, right, but are downloadable and archivable. The incremental patches, which are installed progressively as you download them, are surely not found on the internet.
Major patches are made by Gal Civ to allow Users to archives them and reuse them as they wish, with the big drawback that they are pirated.

You are very wrong again. All of the Galciv patches can be found on the net. Propably someone using the method what Ive mentioned above.

As I said protections are useless, and the cd-key to download method as well.
Someone will get those updates and put it up to the net. 100%.
Cd-Keys are only helpful in multiplayer, and only on the net. on LAN you can ALWAYS play with warez cd-keys as well.

Gandalf Parker · #15 October 13th, 2003, 05:36 PM

Copy protection is just that. Its not piracy protection and its not meant to be. Casual copying by good buddies is a much more important target. Piracy is a fun side issue to do damage to whenever possible.

The argument that "it doesnt work and shouldnt be bothered with" is used for security, laws, religion, government, schools, etc etc. If they thought they were trying to stop it then yes they would probably give up. But if they consider their job to make it as hard as possible, for as many as possible, for as long as possible... well then they are doing just fine.

Pocus · #16 October 13th, 2003, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DominionsFAN:

quote:
Originally posted by Pocus:
False. The updates which can be found are the major patches, which are delivered with a cd key, right, but are downloadable and archivable. The incremental patches, which are installed progressively as you download them, are surely not found on the internet.
Major patches are made by Gal Civ to allow Users to archives them and reuse them as they wish, with the big drawback that they are pirated.

You are very wrong again. All of the Galciv patches can be found on the net. Propably someone using the method what Ive mentioned above.

I bought gal civ, have you? I know for sure that the major patches are distributed without much protections, but the incremental patches are only downloadable thru stardock utility, which downloads the components and then upgrade your game on the fly. I would be very surprised to see incremental patches on P2P servers or on warez sites, as it would asks for an hacked copy of the utility. Can be, but this would be a major hassle, as the utility is itself patched nearly all weeks (and work only with a secure connection toward stardock). What you see is certainly the big patches. If stardock only permitted DL thru his securized connection, I think this would slow down greatly the hacking of the game.

I maintain that the download of patches only available thru secure connections made between the user and a certified server, with a list of Banned keys, is a scheme which impede greatly pirates. Thats IMO anyway, you can disagree

And I think that most honest Users are not that bothered by a scheme like this, because they know that the time they loose when they DL a patch with their key is a very small loss, compared to all the hassle incured by pirates to get a given Version of the game (and as soon as a patch his DL with the same cdkey too many time, ban it, to the despair of all pirates).
(IMO again)

[ October 13, 2003, 17:02: Message edited by: Pocus ]

Mortifer · #17 October 13th, 2003, 06:03 PM

Pocus, I dont know about these things but.....if you say: major patches. Well arent the major patches what those warez ppl need? I guess major patch means v1.1, v1.2 etc. Am I right?

What is a incremental patch anyways?

Saber Cherry · #18 October 13th, 2003, 07:41 PM

I've lost a few CD keys, and it was really a pain. Now I always write them on the game CD... but in general, if a game requires key, I think it should be marked on the original CD (not the jewel case or box).

Any "activation" ala Windows would prevent me from buying any software (except Windows... sigh). If I were to release a game, I would probably allow patches to be downloaded for free, but require a key to be entered for the patch to be installed. That way, keys could be revoked in the future (if some were found to be massively duped), but there would be no Online BS to mess with (patches could be mirrored, etc). This would require big keys, with so many possiblities that if somebody cracked the keygen, any random new valid key generated would have a statistically zero chance of matching an existing customer's key - in other words, a duplicated key means that somebody gave his key to someone else. And if a flawed, crackable keygen was used, the only people to suffer would be the people that chose the keygen.

There are no perfect systems, but if you can make it take more than $39 worth of work to run the game illegally - without ever harming legit customers - the level of piracy will be insignificant. And BTW, I think requiring a CD in the drive to play constitutes "harm"

-Cherry

Pocus · #19 October 13th, 2003, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mortifer:
Pocus, I dont know about these things but.....if you say: major patches. Well arent the major patches what those warez ppl need? I guess major patch means v1.1, v1.2 etc. Am I right?

What is a incremental patch anyways?

sure you can play with only major patches. By major, I mean the ones released by Stardock, that are available y regular download. But Stardock, almost weekly, release incremental subpatches, which are only available thru their utility (witch a check on the cdkey). Once in a while, they release a 'summary' patch, which cover all the tweak dones for some weeks/months.

I understand that they release these big patches to not piss off customers, but this is what permit pirates to get updates, which are then disseminated on the internet.

DominionsFan · #20 October 13th, 2003, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pocus:

quote:
Originally posted by Mortifer:
Pocus, I dont know about these things but.....if you say: major patches. Well arent the major patches what those warez ppl need? I guess major patch means v1.1, v1.2 etc. Am I right?

What is a incremental patch anyways?

sure you can play with only major patches. By major, I mean the ones released by Stardock, that are available y regular download. But Stardock, almost weekly, release incremental subpatches, which are only available thru their utility (witch a check on the cdkey). Once in a while, they release a 'summary' patch, which cover all the tweak dones for some weeks/months.

I understand that they release these big patches to not piss off customers, but this is what permit pirates to get updates, which are then disseminated on the internet.

No one cares about 'little patches'.
All major patches are on the net for Galciv..

If you ask me there is no perfect protection against crackers, and propably never will be. Sadly we must live with this. Always.

[ October 13, 2003, 19:46: Message edited by: DominionsFAN ]