Possible bug report: With some Spoilers

[apoger]

>you will find some files for dominions, one is named aranallunits.zip

I have made a similar file.
1010 is the Last unit number. Edit your file so the units stop there, else the game crashes when you try to view 1011.

[Pocus]

changed, thanks.

[josh_f]

Duh, I forgot about adding units by their #. Now that I have seen the full unit list (thanks pocus!), I'm even more confused about the rationale behind not making Ice Devils fire susceptible. Arch Devils are cold susceptible, and they are about equal strength to Ice Devils, IMHO. Just looking at their stats Ice Devils seem extremely overpowered for their research level.

[Pocus]

a note though : old units of doms I are still there, so there is still the 'generic' ice devil and arch devil. I dont know if they have been updated, but this can explain why you find some creatures unbalanced.

I saw that the old legionaires of Pythium are still there too. Funny in a sense. Now we have 3 sets of Legionaires (if you add the one of Living Ermor)

[josh_f]

I noticed the old units were still there, and I ignored them. I don't want spoil you, but some of the new ice devils start off with very nice magic items. I've look through the spell list and I see no good way of dealing with an Ice Devil with any spell below level 7. If Ice Devils were a level 6 summons they would still be better than any non-blood summons. It's possible that my dom 1 experience taints my analysis, and when the full game is out it'll be no problem. Looking at the stats, however, I don't see it. I suppose we'll find out soon enough.

[Chris Byler]

Originally posted by josh_f:
I noticed the old units were still there, and I ignored them. I don't want spoil you, but some of the new ice devils start off with very nice magic items. I've look through the spell list and I see no good way of dealing with an Ice Devil with any spell below level 7. If Ice Devils were a level 6 summons they would still be better than any non-blood summons. It's possible that my dom 1 experience taints my analysis, and when the full game is out it'll be no problem. Looking at the stats, however, I don't see it. I suppose we'll find out soon enough.

Just Mans Cross does 30 armor piercing to undead or demons (for the low low price of 5 fire gems).

Banishment still works on demons.

There's a new low level blood spell, Banish Demon. (I think there should be Control Demon and Demon Mastery, too - at suitable research levels and costs, of course. If you can control magic or undead, why not demons?)

Incinerate should really do a number on fire susceptible creatures (and has 100 PREC and no MR save, IIRC). Depending on how susceptibility interacts with various sources of resistance, it may or may not be possible to get ice devils to be 100 percent fire resistant.

If there isn't already a weapon that instantly slays demons (like Heart Finder Sword/Elf Bane), there should be. For example:

Sword of Righteousness
Fire 1, Astral 1, Construction 4
Damage 8 (x3 vs undead/demons)
Attack 3
Defense 2
Length (whatever the normal length of 1-h swords is)
This sword is forged with spells of righteous fury and deals terrible damage to undead and demons. In addition to its damage, the sword has a chance of instantly destroying any undead or demonic target it strikes. This effect may be resisted by magic resistance (magic penetration 15).

I think that could probably rein in demonic or undead supercombatants (and Molochs and Princes of Death would have cause to fear it - even though their magic resistance is high enough to usually resist the slaying effect, it still does triple damage.)

[apoger]

Originally posted by josh_f:
I noticed the old units were still there, and I ignored them. I don't want spoil you, but some of the new ice devils start off with very nice magic items. I've look through the spell list and I see no good way of dealing with an Ice Devil with any spell below level 7. If Ice Devils were a level 6 summons they would still be better than any non-blood summons. It's possible that my dom 1 experience taints my analysis, and when the full game is out it'll be no problem. Looking at the stats, however, I don't see it. I suppose we'll find out soon enough.

We must assume the player summoning an ID will protect it with elemental immunities.

That leaves;

The following could do the job via spell check failure: mind burn, sleep, paralyze, and soul slay.

Starfire, even in it's very weakened form.

Curse, and pray that you can beat it down with afflictions.

and...

That's it. The amount of counters for ID's or super combatants is fleeting in DOM II. Frankly I think this is going to poison multiplayer.

Ice devils would be worthwhile at double the current cost.

Blood summons, already a problem in DOM I, had their costs increased by 50%. Meanwhile elementals had a 100% increase in fatigue, plus gem costs. Seasonal spirits also got a 100% increase in gem cost. Evocation spells are now wildly inaccurate. Starfire got a 400% increase in fatigue while it's damage got cut in half. Undead counterspells now don't work versus "devils".

I can't believe IW dropped the ball so hard on game balance. Pretender super combatants and the blood summons are going to dominate multiplayer games.

Unless of course if I'm missing something...
By all means if you can see some way out of this, let me know!

[licker]

Just wondering if these blood summons are for the uniques? In which they are still badass, but you can only get a limited number of them to begin with.

[apoger]

>Just Mans Cross does 30 armor piercing to undead or demons (for the low low price of 5 fire gems).

They aren't good for much else. So if you have the time to make them. The gems. The research. the mage skill. And *IF* you can actually connect with them in battle... you have a chance, if you can pump in enough damage to beat the ID's regeneration (rings of regen being standard equipment for protecting your devils).

That's a tall order.
In all my time playing Dom I, I never saw an ID killed by a just mans cross.


>Banishment still works on demons.

In Dom I, I have witnessed thousands of banishment attempts on ID's. Once in a blue moon the banishment does 5-6 damage. That's it.

Unless banishment has been massively upgraded, I wouldn't count on it.

[apoger]

Originally posted by licker:
Just wondering if these blood summons are for the uniques? In which they are still badass, but you can only get a limited number of them to begin with.

They aren't limited enough. Not even close. There are enough for each blood nation to get 3-5 each.


It's just my opinion... but I think 6 ID is 5 too many.