Game balance suggestions.

[General Tacticus]

Originally posted by Karacan:
In my opinion (and mine only ), the luck scale is simply sub-par to the order scale.

But it is so much more FUN !!

Even with luck+3, you only have a 80% chance of a random event being a good one... that means that every fifth event is a bad one. Since bad events are usually much worse than average good events, I usually go for order scale to reduce the amount of events at all happening to me - I am more scaerd of floods killing of my population than looking forward to getting a random magic item and a couple of gold for free, as well in early as in late game.

I am not so sure of that. Don't forget that the luck scale influence also what events you can receive. And that the big bad AI's love to send you bad "natural" events. For example, in my AAR, playing at order -3 luck +1, I have in 50 turns had :
- two emigration events (-20% pop), one in my capital
- two events that took 50 gold each
- quite a few hurricanes, but some of those I suspect are gifts from the AI's
- 6 attacks by independants on my provinces (dark vines, barbarians, vampires,...), 4 of which succeeded.
- Various bad omens, growing unrest, and lack of faith
- Two raids on my slave dungeons to steal my virgins

On the other hand, I was gifted with two labs, one fortress, 600 gold, an average of two handfuls of magic gems per turn, three + 5 province defense, and one gold site (arena I think). Oh, and an animist as well.

I am quite happy with the results : My events are mostly good, and while the worst one was harsh (that emigration in my capital is costing me 30 gold/turn for the rest of the game), some of the good ones were very good (+500 gold, arena site, free hill fortress, free labs). Plus, that extra gem income is coming quite steadily and usefuly...

[ January 09, 2004, 17:15: Message edited by: General Tacticus ]

[Gandalf Parker]

I think that like alot of other things in this game the Luck scale is something that either fits a persons mode of play or it doesnt. I like Luck but the events can swing you back and forth alot. Some people like to play this game with long running well thought out strategys and plans. Luck is not something they would like. Im not so good at planning so I do better with quickly making use of random changes in luck both Pro and Con.

[Windreaper]

Hmm, I got some additions, too.

Devs, please put Clam of Pearls and Staff of Storms to Const 6 and consider increasing the cost of the clam. I hope I don't have to explain the staff but the clam probably needs an explanation.

By converting all your gems into water (easiest with water nations, naturally) and making solely clams and again turning the astral back to water will get you an astral income of over 100 by turn 40. Couple this with concentrated research and you'll be casting Wish per turn from turn ~40 on. This strategy has been used extensively in finnish PBEM games and has pretty much always resulted in a win. We've been trying to bug the occasional dev at #dominions with the issue but it'd appear that it's still unchanged in Dom2.

[Catquiet]

Originally posted by PrinzMegaherz:
I know I already mentioned this before, but please... some kind of special regeneration for pretenders that allow them to cure their battle afflictions (maybe an special order "heal wounds" that gives a 10% Chance to lose a battle affliction).

Or allow pretenders a chance to heal afflictions whenever they are in their home province.

Or allow priests to use the Call God command to heal living pretenders of one affliction once 40 priest levels have accumulated.

The Clam of Pearls strategy is a key one. Though perhaps it should be toned down. Maybe if you could create a maximum number or change the resource cost of the gems. Though in consideration the Fever Fetish should be adjusted as well as the potential is still there to abuse; but not the key path.

The Staff of Storms has (in Dom2) always been overpowered. It's way to easy to totally negate archers.

[apoger]

>the clam probably needs an explanation.
>By converting all your gems into water (easiest with water nations, naturally) and making solely clams and again turning the astral back to water will get you an astral income of over 100 by turn 40.


This doesn't sound like a good strategy to me.

In order to have a clam income of 100 you need 100 clams.

The cost of 100 clams is 1000 water gems.

Lets be generous and say that 30% of your gem income is water, 30% is astral, and 40% is other.

That means the construction of 100 clams cost somewhere around 2500 gems.

This strategy includes waiting 40 turns to use gems while you horde, and won't accumulate 2500 gems in return for an additional 25 turns.

The way I see it the clam strategy doesn't start turning a profit until about turn 65, and takes quite a bit of dedication.

Is this really a good strategy? What am I missing?

[apoger]

>The Staff of Storms has (in Dom2) always been overpowered. It's way to easy to totally negate archers.


The SOS on the other hand... should be a unique artifact.

You don't let key parts of your empire growth and maintainance (and domination) falter because of it.

The reason for the clam strategy is you can Wish every other turn by turn 40.

If you Last that long, guess what? It's hard for other nations to cope with a Wish every other turn (or every turn, depending on your other gem incomes).

The clams pay for themselves by turn 25, making 2 clams a turn I believe, I broke it down to Sunray and I don't remember the exact numbers. Not quite 100 Clams by turn 40, but 75 is more than possible.

The potential should be obvious.

Whether or not you consider it cost effective is whether or not the game allows you to do it and you arn't desperate for gems to maintain your growth.

And if you really want to, your first wish can be for gems.

Edit: Yes this strategy does have weaknesses. As should be apparent, but the application of it has worked more often than not.

[ January 10, 2004, 04:09: Message edited by: Zen ]

[apoger]

>The clams pay for themselves by turn 25, making 2 clams a turn I believe

2 clams per turn takes 20 water gems.
If you are converting astrals it's 40 astrals.
It would take 40 clams to produce 40 astrals.

Do you really anticipate having built 40 clams by turn 25?


From another tact, lets assume that by some miracle you do have 40 clams. That took 400 water gems (lets not even consider conVersion rates). That 400 gems could have been put to very good use... lets say 13 Murdering Winters, 200 Winter Wolves, 400 Sea trolls, or a feeble 140ish if using Sea kings Court (but you do get commanders that way). Those 400 water gems could have been put to great use capturing provinces and eliminating enemies. Those extra provinces will produce gems. So this path gets you combat power, economics, gems, and helps remove enemies.


Now I can see how, over time, the clams could pile up an advantage when used with Wish. However it takes a good long while, and you must be counting on some wonderfully non-aggressive enemies that allow you to get away with it. Frankly, I wouldn't count on such benevolence from my enemies.

I've done it plenty of times with S&A. And yes, it has a downside.

But if you didn't notice, I said if it doesn't impede your expansion.

You're looking at it only from a numerical point of view as opposed to a by turn point of view. And it's important to note the conVersion of Astrals that you get from the Clams to Water. That's 20 Pearls.

Here is the exerpt from my email detailing part of an old clam strategy.

Turn 4 (Usually when you can Research Construction 2)
10 Water Gems = 1 CoP
1 CoP = 1 Astral Gem. 10 Water Gems = 1 CoP
2 CoP = 2 Astral Gems. 10 Water Gems = 1 CoP
3 CoP = 3 Astral Gems. 10 Water Gems = 1 CoP
4 CoP = 4 Astral Gems. 10 Water Gems = 1 CoP
5 CoP = 5 Astral Gems. 10 Water Gems = 1 CoP
6 CoP = 6 Astral Gems. 10 Water Gems = 1 CoP.

Now it's Turn 10. You have made 21 Astral Pearls, which alchemizes to 10 Water Gems. Total Investment = 50 Water Gems (- 10 from Alchemized Pearls)

Turn 11 - Turn 20

7 CoP = 7 Astral Gems. 10 Water Gems = 1 CoP
8 CoP = 8 Astral Gems. 10 Water Gems = 1 CoP
9 CoP = 9 Astral Gems. 10 Water Gems = 1 CoP.
10 CoP = 10 Astral Gems. 10 Water Gems = 1 CoP
11 CoP = 12 Astral Gems. 20 Water Gems = 2 CoP
13 CoP = 14 Astral Gems. 20 Water Gems = 2 CoP
15 CoP = 16 Astral Gems. 20 Water Gems = 2 CoP
17 CoP = 17 Astral Gems. 20 Water Gems = 2 CoP
19 CoP = 19 Astral Gems. 20 Water Gems = 2 CoP
21 CoP = 21 Astral Gems. 20 Water Gems = 2 CoP

Turn 20 = 133 Astral Gems. 220 Water Gems. Alchemized Pearls = 66 Water Gems. Total Investment 154 Water Gems.


I may have been off by turn 25, but it's still something you can look at.

It has worked for me both trying the "Wish" strategy and also using the pearls for other things. And not with having complacent neighbors, more often than not I was doing quite well having fought the entire time; but when turn 40+ comes around, most have a large number of gems/research, supercombatants etc, so having access to a high end gem income a definite advantage that they potentially don't.

Like I said it only works with certain nations in certain circumstances, but it's not 'unthinkable'.

Maybe if Water had a better selection of combat oriented spells, or gem uses it would be more of a 'hit' in my mind. But I consider Water weaker than most of the other paths. Even though it contains Quickness and a few other key spells, I'm talking about things that can pivot the game. There are a few but far from most other paths.

Like I said the Clam strategy has it's weaknesses, like fielding and keeping alive 'carriers', having a decent water income to begin with and getting a few sites searched. This strategy is only really viable with an already strong nation or one that doesn't need to rely on water summons or gem income. Pythium, Arco, etc.

Edit: With the above example even if you only make 1 clam a turn (Not costing you any more gems, because it is paying for itself) from turn 20 -40 and end up wiuth 41 Clams at turn 40 your total investment for a 41 Astral Gem Income is 154 water gems.

[ January 10, 2004, 10:20: Message edited by: Zen ]