Two new MODs from me

[apoger]

> An Abyssian trying to live on a Glacier is a 60% Loss (From Heat 3 to Cold 3 is 6 steps). In your mod it's a 120% Loss.


6 steps at 5% = 30%

It is 120% in my mod. Abysia generates no cash in cold +3. I have no issue with that.

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by apoger:
> An Abyssian trying to live on a Glacier is a 60% Loss (From Heat 3 to Cold 3 is 6 steps). In your mod it's a 120% Loss.


6 steps at 5% = 30%

It is 120% in my mod. Abysia generates no cash in cold +3. I have no issue with that.

Neither does Machaka though, and since Machaka is most likely South Africa, heat +2 is not that hot.

Heat +3 is likely a land where daytime temperatures of 45 deg C are common throughout the year. Cold +3 would be like the arctic, bitterly cold in the winter, but certainly not unlivable.

[apoger]

>Did you test your Mod with force turmoil, forced misfortune and other 'unchangable' variables and come up with conclusions around them? (Specifically I'm thinking of Barbarian Kings, Force Turmoil of 2, with no other scales that give any sort of income, they had better just head home because they won't be able to pay upkeep let alone recruit new units)


I tested by playing games where I took all 17 nations. I used a variety of strategies and expanded like I normally would.

Forced turmoil isn't happy, as it's a negative scale. Using my mod such nations can be somewhat competitive economically using growth and particularly luck, which is more than they can do without the mod.

I am not a fan of forced turmoil in general. I don't think the themes that got it also got enough power to compensate. Their issue isn't the scales, but the nation design. When IW creates tools that allow changes to the themes, I'll do work on that.

[Saber Cherry]

Hmmm. 30% per step for productivity? 15% for income? 0.7% for growth?

...

Sounds like order 3, growth 3, productivity 3, some sort of castle... and anything that's left on the god. With scales that strong I can't imagine taking any negatives or wasting points on a god.

[Keir Maxwell]

Originally posted by apoger:
>Alex, why don't you lay out the readme of the changes you implemented in the Balancemod? Just to see which direction you went in.

I'd rather players try the scales before arguing about them.

I can understand that. These are your scales the way you want the game to play. If someone trys and likes the approach they might have useful criticisms while if they simply don't like your approach its not worth arguing about.

Not suprisingly the mod reflect the trends that I have seen in your race design (heavy weight on scales) and thats obviously how you enjoy playing the game.

The recuperation thing is a bit odd. Its so heavily in favour of SC's that I find your claim to dislike SC's hard to fathom. I don't like pretender SC's much at all and I don't use them much - unless PoD with death9 for terror using C'tis counts as one. You on the other hand dislike SC's, use them frequently, and want a mod making them much stronger. I don't have problems with pretenders getting affliction as I so rarely use them in combat while you get them alot so want to deal with the issue - but you don't like SC's. Here I'm confused.

I have had the impression for awhile now that you are missing dom1. The mod allows you to recapture what you liked of dom1 and make it as much the way you would have liked as possible. Sorta like dominions on steriods with the massive economic growth you have enabled.

The value of the mod tools - we can all try to get what we want.

Ciao

Keir

[apoger]

>Cold +3 would be like the arctic, bitterly cold in the winter, but certainly not unlivable.

Compare a temperate area (England, NE America, Japan) to the arctic. Yes people can live in the arctic, the question is how hard would it be (without mordern tech)? Compared to their fair weather friends would they produce 15% less? My mod puts it at 60%. I'm willing to stand by that.

Also keep in mind that this isn't reality. It's an abstraction in a fantasy game. I don't think strong penalties for complete opposites are unjustified.

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Saber Cherry:
Sounds like order 3, growth 3, productivity 3, some sort of castle... and anything that's left on the god. With scales that strong I can't imagine taking any negatives or wasting points on a god.

Same here. Just take Pythium with an oracle, and give them order 3, prod 3, growth 3, luck 1, wizard's tower. Put your remaining points into a dominion of 5 and one extral point of astral. I can't imagine that spending points on a pretender would make any sense at all when the scales are so overpowerful.

[Keir Maxwell]

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:
I'd like to see better balance, but less impact from the scales, so that it might be normal to take at least 9 in one path on a pretender while still having a fairly high skill in other magic paths.

Bless effects heaven - a man after my own tastes.

The way I can see of doing this with the present mod tools is modding the pretenders to give them more-and-higher starting paths of magic while leaving their costs the same.

Another approach would be to make all the scales weaker making the return from magic more appealling but I don't like this approach so much.

Cheers

Keir

[ January 15, 2004, 01:39: Message edited by: Keir Maxwell ]

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by apoger:
Compare a temperate area (England, NE America, Japan) to the arctic. Yes people can live in the arctic, the question is how hard would it be (without mordern tech)? Compared to their fair weather friends would they produce 15% less? My mod puts it at 60%. I'm willing to stand by that.

Scandanivia is either cold 1 or 2 (Vanheim/Jotunheim). It certainly doesn't produce 40% less output per piece of land than England. Neither does Canada.

Also keep in mind that this isn't reality. It's an abstraction in a fantasy game. I don't think strong penalties for complete opposites are unjustified.

As long as part of your argument is grounded in reality, then realism always applies, or else you must simply change your argument to "There is no reason other than because I feel like it." If you wish to invoke reality for part of your explanation then it should also work for arguments against something.

Alex, I'm not arguing here.

I think I didn't know which one you pumped to 10% Just income?

IW Scales: Heat 3 Preference to Cold 3 Enviroment

-30% Gold, -60% Supplies.

AlexMod Scales

-120% Gold?, -120% Supplies? (Or -60% Supplies)?