AI colony ship design - Page 2

raynor · #11 February 6th, 2001, 08:28 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Tampa_Gamer:
Agreed. Easier fix than others I have seen or implemented in my own mod. I didn't notice this problem as much in my own mod b/c a long time ago I changed the engine components so that the upgraded engines for each engine type consume 10, 9 and 8 supplies, respectively (instead of 10, 10, and 10 in the game). I cannot take credit for the ideal, I think Talenn, Jubala or one of the others in the early days came up with this.

Hey! Now that's a pretty good idea! I've always hated that the II and III engines of each type just slightly decreased the cost. It seemed like the only reason you researched it was to get the next engine that adds a movement point. But decreasing the supplies used by each successive Version is pretty brilliant! My compliments to whomever came up with this idea.

Daynarr · #12 February 6th, 2001, 10:12 PM

Great ideas Tampa and geoschmo, I will definitely use them in my mod too. Also, I agree with geoschmo that colonizers should be canceling their orders (or updating to be more accurate), someone could mail this to MM, maybe they will put it in next patch.

Baron Munchausen · #13 February 7th, 2001, 12:15 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Tampa_Gamer:
Agreed. Easier fix than others I have seen or implemented in my own mod. I didn't notice this problem as much in my own mod b/c a long time ago I changed the engine components so that the upgraded engines for each engine type consume 10, 9 and 8 supplies, respectively (instead of 10, 10, and 10 in the game). I cannot take credit for the ideal, I think Talenn, Jubala or one of the others in the early days came up with this.

[This message has been edited by Tampa_Gamer (edited 06 February 2001).]

Be aware that this decreases the value of the Advanced Power Conservation trait, though.

Baron Munchausen · #14 February 8th, 2001, 02:31 AM

Argh!!!

I got bit by the stupidity of the AI with that colony module mod. It's putting colony modules in WARSHIPS because they have more supply storage than the standard supply storage component. ()&*$*&*$@*&!$_**_!$!!

So, I had to drop it to standard supply module capacity so the stupid AI won't use a 400kt component in place of a 10kt component with the same supply capacity.

You'd think there would be some simple comparisons done when putting a ship together.

geoschmo · #15 February 8th, 2001, 03:02 AM

ROFL, that's great! Just goes to show why coming up with an "adequate" ai is harder than people think.

Oh, well. Some extra supply is better than none. Won't eliminate the problem of derelict colony ships, but it should help.

Assistant: Chief, why are we putting a colony module on on this cruiser again?

Chief: Cause His Higness feels the extra range is neccesary to expand his empire of course!

Assintant: But want are they going to shoot at the enemy, cans of spam and bottled water?

[This message has been edited by geoschmo (edited 08 February 2001).]

Daynarr · #16 February 8th, 2001, 09:17 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Baron Munchausen:
Argh!!!

I got bit by the stupidity of the AI with that colony module mod. It's putting colony modules in WARSHIPS because they have more supply storage than the standard supply storage component. ()&*$*&*$@*&!$_**_!$!!

So, I had to drop it to standard supply module capacity so the stupid AI won't use a 400kt component in place of a 10kt component with the same supply capacity. You'd think there would be some simple comparisons done when putting a ship together.

I though AI may do something like that.

Anyways, I am using our mod pack and in it the Mephisto has disabled all the supply components. You may, of course, increase the capacity of Supply Storage I to exceed the capacity of the colony module (give them something like 1500 for colony and 1501,2000 and 2500 for storage). Fixes the problem without hassle.

[This message has been edited by Daynarr (edited 08 February 2001).]

Tomgs · #17 February 8th, 2001, 12:00 PM

I had even more fun when I raised the supply storage of engine components

. I started running into empires with 7 engines on their ship because the enginge level III had more supplies than a level 1 Supply storage unit. Of course it only takes up 10KT so it didn't overburden their ship a lot but they were definitly faster in combat.

Atrocities · #18 February 8th, 2001, 12:55 PM

Hum, this sounds like a worth while edit to make. Did you notice any draw backs to what you did? I mean, did the AI screw up and build ships with max engines, but no supplie containers?

HreDaak · #19 February 8th, 2001, 01:19 PM

Did some testing how to eliminate AI derelict colony ship problems in Huge galaxies (254 systems). Following changes were enough that the AI never had colony ships that run out of supply.

1. Added 1000 Supply storage to colony ship modules.
2. Changed engines so that they take supplies as 10,9,8 and made it so that AI uses type III engines (8 supply usage) most of the time...
3. Changed colony module size to 180kt so that AI could add Solar collector component to its colony ship designs. Also made sure that the AI researches stellar harnessing III pretty early in the game, its not expensive: 50k+75k=125k.

With these changes i would say that there are practically almost no limits to colony ships range. Standard colony ship with type III ion engines consumes 200 supplies per turn and the solar collector III collects 150 supplies per turn, so the colony ship uses only 50 supplies per turn now. It has an average operating time of 70 turns now and could move 350 sectors. That guarantees that the colony ship can now travel through 31 systems on average... i think that is enough even in the largest galaxies

.

Also i made it so that each AI carrier had 3 solar collectors in its designs. As the AI currently likes to include carriers in its fleets these fleets had much more range... i.e AI fleets could attack several different planets/systems until they had to return back to resupply (note that this has almost no effect on AI carriers since they have only 2 less fighter bays). I've also been thinking to add solar collectors on attack ships, and if you play on Huge galaxies (like 200+ systems) i think it would be wise to add 1 or 2 solar collectors to each AI attack ship design too (depending on the size of these attack ships ofcourse).

Tenryu · #20 February 8th, 2001, 04:09 PM

I solved this problem and some other annoying issues to my liking by REMOVING most of the supply capacity from engines and making it an ability specific to each VEHICLE! Bigger hulls generally get more supplies.

I also give most my hulls a built in movement allowance and by limiting the number of engines per hull and using the "engines per move" field give my hulls the number of 'engine rooms' I feel comfortable with for each ship.

I feel a Gunboat should have way less engines than a Dreadnought and any one engine hit on a gunboat should have way more impact than a loss of an engine on a big ship.

So, my Gunboats have a max of 2 engines, with 1 move per engine and a built in movement of 2 while my dreadnoughts can have 12 engines, but move 1 per 4 with a built in move of 1.

The built in movement on the hulls simulates, at least to me, that putting a ship dead in the water, so to speak, forever, is pretty hard to do.The crew can usually get the ship to make some way if given enough time and the vessel isn't in imminent danger of floundering.

I left a little bit of supplies on the engines and at each level give them a little more supplies. Starting at Ion I, my sequence is: 50, 55, 60, 60, 65, 70, 70, 75, 80, 85, 90, 95.

Additionally, I gave all my Ship Bridge components 1 extra move, I have Base specific and Ship specific bridges, if you're wondering.

You're a ship, you lose your bridge, you slow down some, even if you have an aux.

[This message has been edited by Tenryu (edited 08 February 2001).]