Most difficult nation

[Peter Ebbesen]

I have to admit to a liking for Jotuns as well - especially the Niefelheim theme.

There is something to be said for ordinary troops that are so tough they can rack up a series of major battle inflictions through combat - and still be a force to be reckoned with.

There is nothing quite like looking through a Niefel or Jotun pack after a series of heavy battles and checking which interesting afflictions they have ended up with.

(And seing Niefel giants RUN DOWN fleeing heavy cavalry is a sight to behold )

[moodgiesanta]

Myself, I do poorly with resource-expensive countries. Not Jotun, but other countries that have cheaper alternatives, because I have such a tendency to mass-produce cheapies. That's why Mictlan is so fun for me, since your strength lies in your hordes of wussy troops drawing fire from the people doing the real damage. Ulm, regular flavor, is hard for me, being a defensive, research minded fellow, as is Black Forest Ulm, of those races that I have played more than one game with. I can't stand having all those resource heavy troops. I'd take a bajillion Mictlan warriors being blessed to the nines and having their javelins magically guided and having wicked demons come in after the opponent had been softened by my hordes. I don't like slow dudes that are produced in my castles and are expensive and have weak-o mages.

So for this game, I really think you have to say it is a matter of playstyle. If you like high magic and billions of blood slaves along, Mictlan is good. If you like wicked heavy infantry and a dominion that withers your opponents mages but not your smith dudes, Ulm with a heavy drain scale is good. If you like big giants, go with Jotun, etc.

[Ctennyson]

I do poorly with Ulm. I just cant make them work. My only serious victory came when I had a resource rich secondary castle, 2 mines churning out +50 resources, and an Indep long bow in that province. So the only time I won with Ulm, I played them like they were Man. lol.

I keep trying to make Niefelheim work, too, because they are my favorite in-flavour nation/theme, but the mages are SO expensive, with no good researcher options, you need indy researchers, which there is no guarantee of. Love the theme, though, so I keep trying.

I did ok with Arcos, but nowhere as near as well as you hear about around here.

[Psitticine]

I seem to have the most problem with Mictlan. I enjoy them all the more for it, actually, but I'm always pleased when I'm doing well as them. That's directly related to my comparitive inexperience with blood magic, which I don't care for so much.

[PDF]

I'm rather a wargamer type, so am only able to succeed with nations that have sound strong heavies - Ulm, Arco, Pythium, Abysia - and suck with more subtle nations like Pangea, Mictlan, or R'lyeh.
Maybe Pythium is the easiest IMO : just stack Principes, add some Standards, get some indy archers, back with Theurgs+Communicants

Contrary to Peter E I'm not that easy with Jotuns - troops are very expensive, never numerous and I get easily mobbed... Plus I still have difficulty with Blood economy.

Never played Atlantis, they seem so weak ...

[Pocus]

I find myself that most of the themes are on the weak side. Its becoming a pet peeve of mine (after speed replay of tac battles that is), but frankly something ought to be done.

Thats being said, in any game setting not geared too much toward blitzing, Ulm main theme is the weakest nation for me. So straightfoward that its like you have complete intelligence on his armies, and what they can do. Early one Ulm is better to capitalize on his strong HI, because the advantage wont Last long.

I had the most fun with Marignon. There is a plentiful of things to perform with them.

[Peter Ebbesen]

Originally posted by PDF:

Contrary to Peter E I'm not that easy with Jotuns - troops are very expensive, never numerous and I get easily mobbed... Plus I still have difficulty with Blood economy.

Using Jotunheim's blood ability is entirely optional and, to my mind, not really worth it in the early game where you need to concentrate on building a decent giant force while working on summons. Certainly a devil factory is somewhat less valuable than for other blood nations, as blood mages are expensive and the climate cold. The Ice Devils and Ice Fiends, on the other hand, can provide a strong end-game component to your forces.


To avoid getting mobbed, it is advisable to bring alone some cheap chaff that you can afford to lose, and put in on the flanks, while you keep a Jotun/Niefel (if Niefelheim) force in the centre. The undead are IDEAL for that purpose, and you have easy access to low-level death magic. At higher conjuration levels I find that Sea Trolls are an extremely good complement to a Jotun force as they are excellent meatshields with a decent punch that do not consume supplies (often a priority with giant forces ) As the Sea Kings produce a water gem per round, each Sea King becomes a free Sea Troll recruiment post once summoned. Produce two astral gem generators (10 water gems each) for each Sea King hiding away in a fortress summoning Sea Trolls, and you are on your way to something great.

You do not really need water gems for much other than summoning Sea Trolls or generating astral gems, and together they make a good combination. (With just a tiny boost, Angerboda the Great Hag can be summoning Ether Warriors for those nice astral gems in the mid-game)

Another excellent flanker can be obtained through the medium level spell Pale Riders that gives you an awful lot of longdead horsemen at a low price. While rather fragile, they perform the role of flank shock absorbers excellently, and with attack rear orders and enough of them, you can surround many enemies completely while your giants tear them apart.

[PDF]

Originally posted by Pocus:
I find myself that most of the themes are on the weak side. Its becoming a pet peeve of mine (after speed replay of tac battles that is), but frankly something ought to be done.

Thats being said, in any game setting not geared too much toward blitzing, Ulm main theme is the weakest nation for me. So straightfoward that its like you have complete intelligence on his armies, and what they can do. Early one Ulm is better to capitalize on his strong HI, because the advantage wont Last long.

I had the most fun with Marignon. There is a plentiful of things to perform with them.

C'mon Pocus, Ulm ain't that weak... or is it ?
As you said it's rather than Ulm is not flexible, and so usually quite predictable. Sometimes you can do funny things with them but only if you get indie mages to "flexibilize" your magic.

You're rather MP-oriented, and indeed lack of flexibility is a big drawback in MP. But in SP it's not true, the AI doesn't counterplan your strategy, and Ulm has tough troops and easily usable magics (Earth = protection buff, Fire = Kaboom on enemies )that are Ok vs AIs.

[undead dolphin hacker]

I really only play Multiplayer, so I don't have experience with alot of nations yet, but...

So far I've done the best with Rl'yeh. The early invulnerability (in most cases) of an underwater capitol is a great boon to me, and the ability to cut through indies like the cliched hot knife through butter is really great too (Indies no like mind bLast)...

When I got the game, I thought I'd do best with a Necromantic nation like Ermor or C'tis. No such luck, apparently... I suck with C'tis, and Ermor is... Ermory.

[ February 19, 2004, 02:46: Message edited by: undead dolphin hacker ]

[Saxon]

It sounds like in MP, Ermor is the whipping boy of the crowd. Would that not suggest that it is the weakest in MP? The very strength of the nation makes it a “must kill” target, perversely making it weak, or at least very hard to win with.